Chrissie Ep 41 (Santi)
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Santi: bringing that air of energy where you can be more positive, they can feel that. It's an amazing thing. The people around us can sense what our energy is like, and they are automatically responding to it, whether they know it or not.
Chrissie: it's meant to help the thinking brain out of its disbelief or dismissal or skepticism to see, oh, I have actually changed something physiologic here. What we are doing is shifting our vibration. , And what's actually coursing through our bloodstream and all of its downstream effects.
Santi: don't hesitate to tune in to those things that really nourish you and feed you. And tune out some of the stuff that doesn't serve you.
Chrissie: You're listening to Solving for Joy. I'm your host, Dr. Chrissie Ott.
Hello [00:01:00] everyone. Welcome to today's episode of the Solving for Joy podcast. It is my joy today to welcome my dear friend, Dr. Santi Tanikella. My friend is a physician, she's a coach, she is a integrative pediatrician, and the host of the I Am Well. MD podcast. And in everything else she does, a parent, um, entrepreneur Santi brings this grounded, thoughtful presence that makes you feel seen and actually I think helps you slow down. Santi's presence brings the pause that we all need. We are about to get into a conversation about joy and what it means to be well, not just checking boxes or chasing balance, but really tuning in to what that's like for you. So welcome to the podcast, Santi. I'm so excited to have you [00:02:00] here.
Santi: Thank you so much for inviting me to be here. I am so excited.
Chrissie: Yes. We met several years ago at a physician coaching summit, and I was so delighted to learn that you were an alumni of this med student elective called Heart, and its very first iteration my year 2002. Was called Global one, but it's the same people from the American Medical Student Association, humanistic Medicine, um, subgroup that put on this month long residential retreat like elective. For fourth year medical students to really do some introspection, some reflections, some community building, some healing, some recovery. And as soon as I learned and you learned that we had this in common, we were just like, oh, we were just like, instant family. We just [00:03:00] were like, oh, there, there we go. Yeah. So I'm excited to reflect on those times and, and what that part of training meant for your story. So maybe we can start there.
Santi: Yeah. So it's so funny that you bring that up, like that feeling of family. I. Just after knowing that we had been through these rotations and while we might have been in this rotation at two separate years, uh, two separate points in time, that the essence of that still manages to carry itself. And similarly, when I know of anybody who has been part of the, this particular elective, um.
So I think my iteration, right, it was called Heart. So it was the Humanism Elective in Activism Reflective Transformation, and integrative medicine. And for anybody who has been to this, there is this common ground of wanting [00:04:00] to learn more beyond conventional medicine, wanting to heal, wanting to become healers, and bringing that into the world in a meaningful way. Um. Having a community to be able to learn how to do that and do it well was so pivotal in my career path and in my family life actually. It impacted my, my ability to connect to my family in a whole new way. Because I love that you brought this up. What was your favorite part of that elective, Chrissie?
Chrissie: my fur just kind of like speeds up thinking about what was my favorite part. 'cause there's so many I'm going to, I'm gonna say, first of all, when I abbreviate it to try to make it understandable for people. I call it hippie Dr. Camp. Because it was kind of like going to four weeks of camp with your people and after going through four years of medical school, especially if you felt kind of like a square peg in a round hole to be around, you know, [00:05:00] 20, 25, others who had some, this particular dimensional depth was just like a intense soul homecoming.
Um. Our leaders, uh, the people who inspired this were Polly De Levit, bill Manahan, Wayne Jonas, Wendy ksu, and others. And they are such important leaders in this space, so it's important for me to say their names. Um, Polly is no longer with us, but one of the highlighted memories in my, uh, experience there was this, this day we did the angel walk. did, We did that too. Yeah. We're like blindfolded, right? You have a, a gauntlet of your peers, um, making kind of a tunnel for you to walk through while listening to extremely moving music, outdoors under the sun and you have a, a blindfold on and you're walking through in silence and they're [00:06:00] asked to touch you in a way that communicates love with your blindfolds on.
Mm-hmm. So, I'm just gonna say it does not sound maybe socially familiar or safe even to do this when you're just like walking off the street into the office. But in this setting, you have to trust us. Um, there was no dry eye in the place. It felt like this is how this is, this is how we should die, is having silence and people touch you in a way that communicates love.
Santi: It actually, you know, even just the memory of that like brings tears to my eyes. Yeah, I don't remember the distinct things because I think in our angel wash, uh, I vaguely remember and anybody who did heart with me can, can, you know, remind me, um, if my memory fails me. But I vaguely remember hearing affirmations from my peers [00:07:00] as well. Like, you know, I've gotten, I got the touches on the shoulder or on my back and this whisper of something motivational or loving. And it was such a beautiful experience. That was actually how we closed the month. And to be able to leave with that sort of very deep, very meaningful energy was so impactful.
Now, our group had 20 some odd students and each one of us got to go through this process. Um, so. You know, when you, when you talk about death and dying, Chrissie, you know, these are some of the things that many of us might have waited to say, waited until we were on our deathbed to whisper to our loved ones. And here we are given this opportunity and this permission to say upfront right now here, uh. And that made me really think we should do that all the time. What are we waiting for? When we [00:08:00] admire somebody or something? Why do we keep it to ourselves? I. We should like shout it from the rooftops, like, Hey, I think you're amazing, and no, we don't need to make this something weird. We can normalize this as part of our human experience on the day to day.
Chrissie: Yes. I think going through that experience changed me. I think it was a truly transformative experience and it also gives, as you're alluding to a social template that we can follow and use in other situations of like, oh, I know how to communicate care, and I've been in a community that communicated care and love beautifully in this situation and ceremonially in this way. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. So deep, deep bow of appreciation to those who continue this tradition. And if you know somebody who is a fourth year med student that needs encouragement and [00:09:00] community and healing, um, look up the heart elective. It is still being held in April, I believe, usually in Northern California.
Santi: . A blessing. Yeah. I wouldn't pass up the opportunity. I actually, I remember when I was a fourth year medical student looking at this elective and being like, I don't know how I can afford this. I, I dismissed it actually, Chrissie, I dismissed it because I didn't think I'd be able to. Um, and then finally, I don't know what shifted in me and I was just like, you know what? It's past deadline. Yeah, let's just send it an application. Let's just do it. and I was sent an email saying that all the slots were full and then I would not be able to go. And then I think like a few days or a week later, someone had dropped out of the group and I got an email saying, Hey, someone wasn't able to make it, the slot is open. Would you like it? And I was like, oh my gosh. This was meant to be. It was meant to be. [00:10:00]
Chrissie: It was meant to be. Yeah, it was so new to be, and you know, I was there with Mara, who is one of the, um, organizers too. I should have, um, said Mara's name right up there first 'cause she's such a force. Um, Mara and I would go for a walk every single morning. We were on the campus of the Institution of Poetic Sciences and Petaluma that year. We would go for a walk around the grounds every morning. We'd have like a two person yoga practice every morning and we would cook for each other every day and sit and circle every morning and like share our dreams and like really deeply check in.
I mean, this is the pace of the time there. And then we would learn about integrative medicine practices or different global medicine. This is, um, and it was just, it was so profoundly different from being in a tertiary medical center, doing your sub internships and working hard and being on call all the time. I also, um, met a really important love interest in my life, [00:11:00] um, during that month, and I know there were others who did as well. Um, who remains a, a dear beloved friend to this day.
Santi: It's beautiful. I have a good number of friends still from that group. Um, and I just want to reflect that this, this early experience for us. I mean, look at where has brought us now. Like 15, 20 years later, right? We are creating this sort of environment for our peers and our friends and family to engage in to, um, to have this loving space that is psychologically safe to be able to be ourselves. And I'm really proud of being able to offer that. You know, I'm so blessed that I had that when I needed it. And it now the cup flows over that like, I'm like, here, I just wanna do this for everybody. This [00:12:00] was like such a wonderful experience.
Chrissie: So it's like we've got to own our heal leadership. At the same time we were getting our medical degree finalized and that I that goes hand in hand. It changes us. Um, it does. How did this blossom for you, Santi? I would love for you to have the opportunity to share a little bit about how your path has taken you and how you've woven that into your practice of medicine, which is a, a beautiful coalescence of threads.
Santi: Yeah, so before I went to heart, before I went on this rotation, actually I was introduced to the Humanism and medicine group at amsa, um, the American Medical Student Association. And so was doing these smaller weekend long retreats, um, once or twice a year in upstate New York. Um, when AMSA lost funding for this particular [00:13:00] group, there was a group of us who were like, we can't let this die. This is just how like this, this nourished us so much and while it's a lot of work to do, this is important.
And so we transformed it and it became the, um, spirituality in Medicine, leadership Training Institute, MLTI. Um, so we actually continued to do these retreats for a while, up until 2017. Um. Yeah. And every year it was a different year. Every year a slightly different group of people every year, equally recharging and magnificent. Um, and so in 2017, this is when I had transitioned jobs. My dad had passed away. Like a lot of things happened that year, and I realized that there was this moment in time where I was like, I need to really care for myself to be able to bring this to the next level. Um, and so though I couldn't do weekend retreats and, [00:14:00] and put forth that much energy anymore, I had of small family. Um, so my hands and, you know, my hands were busy in the day and at night, taking care of a young child. Um, it transformed into doing these small, you know, conferences here and there. Uh. Rather, I should say, presenting at conferences here and there and really bringing it into my institution, um, into the, into my workplace.
So I think most of my coworkers do see me as that person that's very welcoming and very warm and willing to lend a shoulder, willing to lend an ear. And I do think that because that was the sort of culture of my office, that was what I brought to the office. Everybody else was a little bit more willing to, I be softer. It wasn't your typical, um, it wasn't your typical face of medicine that was, you know, very stoic and, [00:15:00] you know, constantly knocking things off the to-do list. Very robotic and mechanical. No, like, it wasn't like that for us, or at least it wasn't like that for me anymore. Um, but there were certainly times where I did feel like in my training that this was the thing that was expected.
I did, I, I and Chrissie you kind of hit the nail on the head. I felt like a hippie wearing a white coat much of the time during my medical schooling and residency. And then I went into, you know, becoming an attending and I was like, okay, now I drive the ship a little bit here. It doesn't mean that I didn't suffer from burnout. It didn't mean that I didn't suffer from moral injury, uh, based on the, the situation. But it meant that I had this center point, this North star that I could look to to say, you know what? I wanna bring more of this in my community. I want more of this in my presence, in my day to day, and I shouldn't have to wait till a weekend retreat a year from now to have that.[00:16:00]
Chrissie: So one of the things that I know about you is, um, your interest in the work of the HeartMath Institute. And, um, you know, basically co-regulating energy and, and, um, biofeedback as a tool for helping to regulate our nervous system. I, I'd love to just, you know, have you share some of your favorite bits of information about how you utilize that tool, how it serves the solving for joy in your patients and families. Um, because I'm sure that HeartMath is unfamiliar to many people who may be listening. Um, and it's just really fun to share about.
Santi: Yeah, so [00:17:00] HeartMath is specifically a company that does teach biofeedback and offers biofeedback devices, which lends the question, what is biofeedback? So biofeedback is the use of a device to be able to monitor sympathetic versus parasympathetic tone. So in general, you know, the most familiar biofeedback device that we use in the clinic setting is the pulse ox, right checking heart rate. So when you're stressed out, your heart rate goes up. When you're relaxed, you're stressed, your, your heart rate goes down.
Blood pressure, that's another form of biofeedback. You're stressed out. Blood pressure goes up, not so stressed, blood pressure goes down. Right? So very, very, um, obvious when it comes to a patient who has white coat hypertension. When you check their blood pressure at the beginning of the appointment versus the end of the appointment, when they know they're get, they're gonna be off the hook, right? We see these palpable differences.[00:18:00]
Now in HeartMath specifically, they use an ear sensor as a way to monitor heart rate variability. I. Now heart rate variability is beat to beat variation. Uh, and so when we see that we are in sympathetic tone, we see a certain type of heart rate variability. And when we're in parasympathetic tone, there's a different sort of sense of that. Now, how does that look on our screen? So this ear sensor attaches to our computer and I use an application and we see this waveform pop up. So when you're in sympathetic tone, we see these erratic lines on our waveform. When you're in parasympathetic tone, it turns into a really beautiful sine wave, very, you know, calm.
And what I love about it is that when I bring this device and my laptop into the exam room with my patients or with a [00:19:00] client during coaching, they're able to see in real time what their body's actually doing. Now what does that mean for us? Putting it in English, it means when we're stressed out and we're activating negative emotions. And I actually do do this in the clinic setting. So I'll, let's say, I'll take an 8-year-old boy and I'll say, I want you to think about the most recent fight you had with your little sister. And I'll let them sit with that and they can tell me about it, and we'll see what their waveform looks like on the application.
And I'll say, okay, let's stop. Let's take three cleansing breaths and let's think about something that we really, really love. It could be your dog, it could be cuddling up with your mom. You know, think about something you really, really love, and let's take some deep, slow breaths while we do that. All of a sudden this waveform, after a few seconds, will [00:20:00] start to show that really nice sign wave pattern. So then when I show the child and the parent what has happened in this moment, they can appreciate how quickly that waveform changed. I'm like, this means that your body is responding merely to suggestion you are not actually in a fight and your dog is not actually here. This is me simply suggesting, let's think about something that was not so great versus something that was great.
And the implications of this are that when we are calmer, we have less stress hormones coursing through our body. Um, we're not as apt to respond negatively in a situation that could be stressful. We can really take this knowledge and implement it in our day to day. Like I know if I get into a fight with my husband that I'm gonna go into a fight or flight freeze or fawn, uh, and maybe that's not the best [00:21:00] way to communicate with him. It's not the best for me to avoid him. It's not the best for me to argue with him for the sake of arguing. But really would be best is for me to take a few breaths, look at the problem from an, from an objective standpoint and create some solutions. And let's make sure that the solutions are good for both of us. This is what biofeedback and just breathing. Being aware. Being calm, that's what that brings us.
And downstream the effects are that we now have relationships with one another that are calmer and, um less volatile, we are able to bring it to our ability to perform, whether it's in presentations or during exams, um, or with patients, right? Like, you know how we get those patients where you see them on your list and you're like, [00:22:00] oh, like why are they on my census again today? You know? Um, and maybe this time things will be different. And bringing that air of energy where you can be more positive, they can feel that. It's an amazing thing. The people around us can sense what our energy is like, and they are automatically responding to it, whether they know it or not. Um, and so when you come in with a calm energy, even if they are angry or volatile, and you're coming in with a cadence that is not a mode of attack or anything like that. They will respond to you maybe initially like angry, and then they'll get confused when you don't start ramping up your tone. And then they hear themselves being angry for no good reason, and then they kind of sit back and like, okay, maybe I need to recalibrate here. And you end up with an interaction that's just so much more [00:23:00] meaningful. So
Chrissie: we show up influences how they show up.
Santi: Absolutely. Absolutely. I like biofeedback because it has really been able to bring science to what seems so esoteric, like meditation, mindfulness, guided imagery, hypnosis, even. Um. And while HeartMath itself as a company has specific mindfulness techniques that you can use, I find that I can bring in all these other modalities in conjunction with biofeedback, and then I can take the device away and leave that patient or client with just the exercise or a number of exercises. Yes, and they are able to now implement them in their day-to-day.
Chrissie: The device is a training tool. It's not meant to be another device attached to us or lifelong, but it's meant to help the thinking brain, um, out of its disbelief or dismissal or skepticism to see, oh, I [00:24:00] have actually changed something physiologic here. Um, what we are doing is shifting our vibration. How our vibration shows up in our body in this case is, um, through our sympathetic nervous system, right? And, and what's actually coursing through our bloodstream and all of its downstream effects. But there is also simply a, you know, what, what hurts are we vibrating at during, during those episodes of arousal and agitation versus when we're feeling more of the relaxation response more grounded and present and aware.
Santi: Absolutely.
Chrissie: Hmm. I love hearing you talk about that. Um, Santi also did a fellowship in integrative medicine, um, and uses a great many modalities in her pediatric practice. Um, what's bringing you a lot of joy these days?
Santi: I have to say [00:25:00] I love being able to have conversations with the whole family. And what I mean by that is sometimes one parent has one way of parenting and the other parent has a different way of parenting. Often in an effort to cover what they perceive to be the shortcomings of the other parent and the poor child is in this mix. Um, and so, you know, kind of being able to, right, like that patient is coming to me for a reason. Let's say it's ADHD or anxiety. But if we have this disparate parenting style amongst the two leaders in that child's life. Well, it's gonna be confusing, right? Like not dissimilar from, you know, I remember working in the ER and I had, you know, five different [00:26:00] type, you know, five different attendings with five different doctoring styles. And I had to learn what does this attending want? Well, that attending doesn't care. You know, my presentation has to be different, you know, their priorities are different. Um, and learning that I wasn't necessarily wrong. It was just, I had to learn their styles to be able to serve it to them in a way that was meaningful.
So here we have this, you know, 10-year-old child who has ADHD and the parents are very worried about, well, my kid can't, you know, focus on their tests. They can't do their homework. There's a lot of yelling. Well, okay, well, can we talk about what's working? Because this poor kid is just hearing a lot of negative feedback here, what's going right and how do we expand on that? You know, where's the five? But similarly for the parents. Yeah, yeah. Right. Like for every one criticism, [00:27:00] give five compliments, you know, and it doesn't, you know, people would, would say that maybe that will make for a less resilient generation.
We could say a lot about that, but there is a lot of resilience in this upcoming generation. I can see it. I know it's there. It's being able to help them to recognize what they're doing right, in a world where a lot of people are telling them that they might be doing things wrong,
Chrissie: maybe a less traumatized generation.
Santi: Yes, yes, I would fully agree. Yeah, because our generation is at least willing to start talking about some of these pain points in our lives and making an effort to correct them. And I'll say this too, parents will come into the, the office very well intentioned, but sometimes the verbiage that is used is not always verbiage that is motivating to a child.
Chrissie: [00:28:00] It's diplomatically, so
Santi: Yes. Yeah. Our language is important. It is important. You know, I, I think that that's such a, it's a place where we can make some improvements for sure. Um, it's even in politics, right? Like the way we talk to one another or the way we drag, you know, one person down, try in an effort to elevate oneself, like what are we teaching the rest of the world? Not cool, not cool in my book.
Um, in any case, that's part of what brings me joy, is seeing the whole family and working on the family dynamics to be able to create a more cohesive unit. Where each member of that family feels seen at the table, feels heard and is valued. Feels valued. They are valued. Let's not, you know, let that you know, go. But I, it's [00:29:00] whether or not we perceive ourselves as being valued. And as a child, I think the thing that was most impactful to me growing up was being seen. You know there were certain family members where I didn't feel seen at all for decades, maybe even. And then other family members where I felt very seen from a very young age and that was a stable, consistent force in my life. And I recognize how important that is, and I do work very hard to be able to bring that same thing to my own children. Right? I want them to feel seen and heard. I value their input, even if it's not great input, like let's have Skittles for dinner. Like, ah, and why do you think Skittles might be a good idea?
You know, it's also within these communities, right? Part of the reason we join [00:30:00] these communities is because it gives us a respite at a time in our life where we may not feel seen, but we enter into these very intentional communities because even if we're scared or worried, there are things there that draw us in. And when we are settled and allowing ourselves to be in a place of openness and maybe even vulnerability, that we know we're not gonna be attacked off the bat for it.
Some psychological safety and coherence.
Santi: so important. Yeah. So, so vitally important.
Chrissie: Yeah. when we've been together at the Physician Coaching Summit, Santi has led guided meditations a few times and once shared with me this beautiful, uh, yoga nidra that she she made for [00:31:00] her son. Um, it may or may not still be on YouTube guys, so we don't know, but, um, she does a beautiful guided meditation. Um, I'm, there's part of me that's tempted to go into like, how amazing this one particular one around the fire was last fall, um, at Miraval when we were there. But, um, Santi's generously agreed to give us a guided meditation as part of the podcast today, and she has one in mind. So, um, with that, I'm just gonna enjoy being guided for a few minutes by you.
Santi: Absolutely. So if you are at home and in a position where you can relax comfortably in a chair or you have the luxury of being able to stand up, I would encourage you to go ahead and do [00:32:00] so.
Chrissie: Which one? Stand up or sit down?
Santi: Oh, it really depends on which one you wanna do. If you're able, physically able to stand up, I'm offering options.
Chrissie: I'm gonna sit because standing might be loud on the podcast. Okay. I'm sitting.
Santi: I will sit with you, Chrissie, but the imagery is real. So let's take three deep breaths here. Breathe in and out. In and out. In and out. [00:33:00] Invite you to breathe at a pace that is comfortable for you. And as you breathe, imagine walking down a beautiful dirt path into a forest. Notice the leaves crunching underneath your feet notice the air on your face as a gentle little bit of wind traces. Its way over your forehead, your nose, [00:34:00] and your cheeks. Notice as the path winds that there's a little clearing up ahead. You can see that the sun's ray are gently streaming down into that clearing. As you come into the clearing, take pause here. Imagine yourself standing straight and tall facing that gentle sun. I. [00:35:00] Noticing the warmth on your body.
Take a deep breath here. Notice your muscles relaxing, your shoulders coming down just a little bit. Arms at your sides, but feet firmly planted. Now imagine little roots starting to come from your feet. Into the ground, winding their way through the dirt. [00:36:00] Notice those roots growing stronger and stronger. You are nourished here. I invite you to imagine the energy of the earth. Gentle, warm, but powerful and stable. Imagine that energy coming into your feet, your legs, your back, [00:37:00] abdomen, chest, arms, and finally your head.
Imagine yourself bringing your arms up high into the sky, and if you'd like to do so in real life, you can do that. Feel the air around your fingertips. Gentle swaying. And imagine rays of light shining from your fingertips into the world like Rays. [00:38:00] Notice how you feel in this moment. I. Imagine this golden glow within you, expanding with each breath you take as you learn to shine your light into the world. Notice that there are trees around you. Roots intertwining with the tips of yours. gently signaling to you that you will never be alone, [00:39:00] that you will always have a home, have a place that is nurturing and nourishing. And trees all around you to support you and that you too have the strength and ability to offer that to the world.
Breathe in. And out, in and out, [00:40:00] in and out. Just know as we end this meditation that you can return to this place of warmth, nourishment, and strength whenever you
like. Breathe in. And out. And when you're ready to reenter this world, wiggle your fingers, wiggle your toes, and gently flutter those eyes open.
Chrissie: [00:41:00] For that medicine was so beautiful and shifted my energy so beautifully. I didn't know I needed that this morning, but I really, really enjoyed it.
Santi: Thank you for this opportunity to offer that.
Chrissie: What a pleasure. What a joy. So glad that we're connected. How can our friends find all the things that you do in the world Santi? We'll post them in the show notes, but also where
Santi: Absolutely. So my website is I am well md.com. I'm available on Facebook, uh, [00:42:00] at I am well md. Um, you can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram. My handle is, I am well, MD. And of course you can find me on my podcast. The I Am Well MD podcast. I try to keep it easy there, very consistent.
Chrissie: Wonderful. Um, Dr. Sat, everyone, thank you, my friend, for being here, spending this time together and enriching us with your presence as you always do.
Santi: It's been such a pleasure to be here and to offer this and to all of those listeners, just know that the information you get from your surroundings, the things you see, the things you listen to, they are medicine to. So don't hesitate to tune in to those things that really nourish you and feed [00:43:00] you. And tune out some of the stuff that doesn't serve you.
Chrissie: Good advice. Thank you, Santi. Thank you, Chrissie.
Chrissie: Thank you again to Dr. Santi Tanikella for this beautiful, generous conversation for reminding us of the power and presence, breath, and returning to our bodies with compassion and awareness. I'm so grateful for her voice and her work in the world.
Next week I will be joined by Dr. Erica Bove, a reproductive endocrinology, and fertility. Specialist, a fertility warrior and a leadership coach who brings deep presence and fierce honesty to our story. We will talk about ambition, identity, infertility, and what it means to come home to yourself even in the midst of heartbreak. I. You don't wanna miss it.
And if you're feeling a nudge or a pull towards something more aligned, grounded, or just [00:44:00] more you, I'm here to connect. I'm a physician coach, and whether you're burned out in transition or simply ready for your next chapter, I will be so happy to meet you where you are. One of the ways I work with people is through the 12 by 12 remastered coaching program. It's a hybrid experience designed to help you reconnect with your energy, your values, and your next right step. Everyone's path is different. Let's begin with an exploratory call. The link is in the show notes.
And if you're craving in-person connection and inspiration, now is the time to grab your ticket to the physician Coaching Summit. It's happening in November at the Savannah Wellness Resort in Arizona. Whether you're a coach or clinician who coaches or someone simply doing the work of healing and leading, this is the place to renew, connect, and remember why you started. Head to the physician coaching summit.com to save your spot and start planning your travel. We'd love to have you there. [00:45:00] And as a reminder, I'm a physician, but not your physician. What we share here is in the spirit of connection and joy, not meant to be taken as medical or professional advice.
If this episode resonated with you, please take a moment to review it, to rate the podcast or forward it to someone you care about. This is how work like this spreads through stories, relationships, through word of mouth, through you. As always, thanks to our creative team, the extremely talented producer, Kelsey Vaughn, to Alyssa Wilkes, Shelby Brakken and Denys Kyschuk And to my love, Sue, and thank you for being here with us. May you move through this week with softness, presence, and the kind of joy that doesn't need to be big to be real. We'll see you next time.
