Chrissie Ep 33 (Anni)
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Anni: [00:00:00] we also need to build our tolerance for the highs and lows that are outside of our control and think about what can I do to equip myself and what can I do today right in this moment that helps me feel more stable. It helps me feel that little burst of joy, helps me feel connected or increases my sense of purpose.
Chrissie: so many large organizations do not have an effective functional mechanism through which to listen and depending on the health of the organization is and has been, you may have actually quite a lot of repair work to do before effective listening can occur.
Anni: so often our wellbeing really is tied up in practice things like efficiency , and what's your administrative burden and all that stuff. You may have joy when that's reduced.
Chrissie: you're listening to Solving for [00:01:00] Joy. I'm your host, Dr. Chrissie Ott.
Hello friends, and welcome to today's episode of the Solving for Joy podcast. It is my distinct honor today to introduce you to Dr. Anni Shandera-Ochsner who is an assistant professor of psychology at Mayo Clinic College of Medicine, and a member of the consulting staff as a board certified clinical neuropsychologist in the Mayo Clinic Health System in La Crosse, Wisconsin. She also serves, and this is how. We found each other on LinkedIn as the medical director of Joy for the Mayo Clinic. The entire enterprise. She has a PhD in clinical psychology received from University of Kentucky, Lexington, and completed her internship training with emphasis in neuropsychology at Emory University in Atlanta. She also has further specialization in mild cognitive impairment, dementia, and other aspects of neurodegenerative [00:02:00] conditions. Uh, and a postdoc at Mayo in Jacksonville, Florida. So she has many, many skills and I'm just delighted to find a common spirit in the wellbeing space. Welcome to Solving for Joy Anni. Thanks for being with us.
Anni: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Chrissie. It's really my pleasure to be here.
Chrissie: Your bio gives me this giant buffet of things to actually ask you about. So I feel, I feel like, oh, where, where to dive in. I'm very excited. So I'm gonna choose to dive into, um, your work as the medical director of Joy for the Enterprise of Mayo. Um, I think it's a relatively newer, uh, title. It's a very rare and powerful title, and one that sounds like, oh, some parts of big medicine are moving in a helpful direction. So please tell me what's it [00:03:00] been like? What are, what is your day to day like, and what kinds of things do you get to promote?
Anni: Sure. Well, honestly, it's, you know, I think it is a rare sort of thing to elevate, um, to this, to the level that Mayo has. And it's also tricky too. Um, you know, I think people sometimes can hear that word joy and shut down joy at work, what? You know, I'm having a terrible day. Uh mm-hmm. So, so there are some challenges to it. Um, but it's exciting.
So really, I got to this work with an interest in employee wellbeing as a whole. And the way that we really look at joy and the, the joy at work in particular at Mayo, um, is as sort of nested within the overall framework of how do we care for our staff. And, you know, even the people strategy. Um, so recognizing that each [00:04:00] individual employee is a unique person with, with needs, and one of those needs would be to have moments of positive emotion at work and to have connection and meaning, um, is part of their overall wellbeing.
But it's cool that this particular piece of that has been carved out as kind of its own unique thing. So, and I think that that a, a healthcare setting actually has so many opportunities to experience joy, um, in a way that's really unique compared to maybe some other types of jobs. Um, because of the very human element that's central to most people's days, whether they're indirectly Supporting or they're directly interacting with patients.
Um. So I get to work with a team. I have a small team. I get to work really closely with, uh, Dr. Colin West, um, who you probably know as a, a well-known name in employee wellbeing. He's our medical director for employee wellbeing, um, for all of Mayo Clinic. And so we [00:05:00] partner on a lot of initiatives, and I learned so much from him in our time. Uh, I've just been in this role for about a year now. Um, and in my role at Mayo in the joy role, which I came to, through my work and interest in employee wellbeing, it's really great because we get to focus on this piece of employee wellbeing that I think is very unique and doesn't always get called out. Um, so the way that I have been focusing my efforts really stems from some listening sessions that we did with the staff, uh, when I first took the role to just first start with what is this? What does this mean to the people that we're trying to help, uh, bring joy to? And I think sometimes we don't start there in large organizations and then we roll out programs that don't really impact anyone and cost a lot of money and wonder why they didn't work.
So this is great to start with [00:06:00] speaking to the staff. So we did some listening sessions. What does Joy at work mean to you? And from that distilled, these three joy core features we call them. And those three things are moments of momentary experiences, uh, that spark positive emotion. So moments of positive emotion, meaningful connections with colleagues. And then an affirmation of an individual's value to Mayo Clinic. So connecting with colleagues, feeling positive emotions and knowing that you as an individual are worth, worth more than just a cog in the wheel sort of approach to the organization.
Um, so that's really what people want. That was how they, when they reflected, when do they feel joyful at work. Those were the times that really rose to the top. And then we also have this recognition that it's not there. There are shared levels of responsibility. So it's not just something, joy at work is not just something that the organization can provide to [00:07:00] all the staff and say, here you go. Here's your joy. And it's not. So we had
Chrissie: it wrapped up and sent to your house and now please be happy. Thank you so much. Pizza on Friday.
Anni: Exactly. Uh, and it, and it's not just, but it's something Mayo can invest in. Right. And then we know leaders are important, right? We know that from tons of the wellbeing work, that I know you're super familiar with as a fellow Stanford Chief Wellness Officer course attendee, um, that a person's direct leader influences their wellbeing to a huge extent and, and also their joy at work or lack thereof. So we can target interventions and tactics that focus on our leaders. Um, and then we also know that teams can foster this for one another and then individuals can play a role in fostering this for themselves and for those around them. So the three core features and then these levels of, of shared responsibility sort of help as a framework and guide to what are we doing, uh, to [00:08:00] promote joy at work.
Chrissie: Starting with a listening session series is such an important best practice, and you correctly called out that so many large organizations do not have an effective functional mechanism through which to listen, uh, to their constituents. Um, and I use the word constituents on purpose because I, I hope that even though organizations are not entirely democratic, that there is at least a whiff of democratic values in the sense of how, how are things for the many? How are things outside Yeah of the C-suite? And depending on what, you know, the health of the organization is and has been, um, you may have actually quite a lot of repair work to do before effective listening can occur. Certainly been absolutely in experiences where that repair work was not acknowledged or completed, and [00:09:00] therefore, even listening couldn't really have effective traction because we don't have enough trust in the room to Oh, yes, believe in the listening. Did you find that was at all an issue in some of these spaces?
Anni: You're speaking to the psychological safety aspect.
Chrissie: Yeah. Psychological safety and also enough trust and faith that the people listening, um, have both the capacity and um, potential to, to make a change versus what I've sometimes come across, which is like, why should I even an bother answering? I've already experienced that nothing will change.
Anni: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for sure. That is a tricky issue and in, in this particular context, I. We kept these fairly small. We pulled for representation of different job roles, different, [00:10:00] even different shifts. You know, like one of the folks that work at night, and that was really eye-opening to hear from them like, well, you know, some of these things are great, but, but it's from like noon to two and then we're coming in and and there's nothing. Yeah. Um, when we start our shift. Um, so could some of these, or if it's an, you know, more of an evening thing, could it, could it just last just a little bit longer so that those of us who are starting our, our work shift could enjoy it too?
Chrissie: Yes. So as a nocturnists, when in my hospitalist years, I worked almost all night shift. And even though I was the chair of the hospital wellness committee, as a nocturnists never got to experience like the food trucks that I personally arranged or like the stocking of the physician's lounge with snacks, they were like, nope, those are gone by the time you get here at seven or eight 30. So I am feeling that. I do, I really feel that, yes.
Anni: [00:11:00] Yes. Um, so it's cool 'cause Right, we don't know what we don't know as a, as a clinician who works, you know, only in the day and has the luxury of not having to take any call or anything, those things are not front of mind for me. Um, yeah. So I, I feel like we had good engagement, but I think it's a real challenge, especially the larger the organization gets, those, those issues that you're speaking to. Um. Particularly for individuals who may have had even one experience where they took the time to share or they were vulnerable to share and then they never heard anything back. They, that one experience, I think can be enough to color their feelings on the matter to say, you know what? It's not worth it. Um,
Chrissie: it's so true to speak. It's so true. And how understandable, you know, when they feel unheard or not understood or dismissed, it may very well subconsciously trigger every time, all the way back to their frustrated adolescent years when they felt not seen, not heard, not [00:12:00] understood. And then, yeah, we have our less adaptive coping mechanisms arise and defenses arise, and a way forward is no longer available until something shifts.
Anni: Yeah. Yeah. Which is, you know, I think loops us back to that direct leader. Right. Um, I don't think we can overdo, I tactics that help support and educate direct leaders, um, because
Chrissie: that's, let's talk about the leader behavior index Girl. Let's nerd out about it. Um, yes, so I will, I'll leave it to you, but LLBI is a index of, um, effective leader behaviors because we do have this sort of sling that people don't leave jobs. They leave leaders, they leave bosses. Yeah. And as a, you know, frontline physician coach, talking to people from C-Suites to frontline, inpatient, outpatient, and everywhere in between, [00:13:00] um, the. The pattern of frustration with my ineffective leader or my toxic leader is so strong. It's so, so strong. So how is, how is Mayo approaching that? Do you have recommendations for organizations or people within organizations that might have the ear of somebody who could actually, um, look at leadership behavior index items?
Anni: Yeah. So, you know, we, I think first have to start with is an organization willing to measure? Um, so using a tool like that, are they willing to measure these behaviors of a leader? Are they willing to measure the soft skills of, of their managers? because if not then it's, it's really, really hard for anyone to [00:14:00] prioritize those things, right? When it comes down to it, if it's not in the job description, um, if it's not what I am gonna have my annual review based on, I'm not gonna put much work toward it. Because it's an implicit message that the organization really doesn't value this or that, it's not a priority. In the same way that, you know, say finances might be.
Um, and so I think, I think the starting point, like if someone's in an organization that's not measuring this through their leaders at all and, and maybe is a bit skeptical on the value of this, I think it can be helpful to come with just a discussion of the rich data that links employee satisfaction, professional fulfillment with things like retention and the costs that we know that are associated with not retaining healthcare workers. Um, so that you're [00:15:00] speaking a common language.
Chrissie: It's approximately a million dollars for every physician you lose. Hint, hint. Just to replace them. Exactly. I do not know the number for other healthcare professionals, but the data is out there.
Anni: Yeah. Yeah. So that, I think finding a common language first, um, and then getting your foot in the door with why this matters to the things that are already top of mind for the leaders. And there's also, as you know, cool data on how patient quality metrics go up, um, and satisfaction. So again, things that we know every single healthcare organization is already caring about and measuring. Pull those things together and show how this is worth investing in Um,
Chrissie: Outcomes, improve patient safety improves. fewer lawsuits? Yes. Less freaked [00:16:00] out physicians. Yes.
Anni: Yeah. Yeah. So, and I think there's a lot of cool, you know, things out there like the AMA steps forward stuff. Um, and the IHI, the Institute for Healthcare Improvement, joy at work, sort of a website and little coaching videos for how to have a listening session, how to get a what matters. All those things that are nice resources that are free, um, are, are, are really good. A great place to start, I think, for someone who's looking to influence.
Chrissie: Thank you for naming those. Um, I will ask my team to put links in the show notes because the a MA Steps Forward podcast is really just an amazing resource for any physician who is interested in improving processes and, you know, wellbeing, but also efficiency,
Anni: right. I mean, so often our wellbeing really is tied up in practice. Things like efficiency, right? And, and what's your administrative burden [00:17:00] and all that stuff. Um, yes, it all matters. And that's, you may have joy when that's reduced.
Chrissie: How much cognitive load, how many perceived, um, stupid tasks per day. It's just, yeah, they're, they're very, How much task switching, how much interruption, how many barricades to care are you surviving? Um, right in your eight plus hour day?
Anni: Yeah. Yeah.
Chrissie: So the three components of joy you named were moments of positive emotion, meaningful connections, and affirmation of value. Um, yeah, there's a great amount of overlap there because as I interpret joy on the podcast, I think of it as meaning, alignment and delight, which has a cute little acronym. I said acronym. Acronym, like Mad Joy. Right. Meaning Alignment, delight. And you certainly hit delight and I think meaningful [00:18:00] communication is probably meaning, um, and alignment is, you know, it's kind of laced through there too. So I, I love how much mm-hmm. Those concepts overlap.
Anni: Yeah. Yeah. They really do. And I think we can lean into different components, depending partly on our role, partly on our, even our personality. You know, for me it's the meaningful connections with others that just is, is my personal kind of bucket filler. Um. Both in terms of patients, but also in terms of my colleagues. You know, and when we get toward the end of the podcast, we can talk about little tips and tricks that that can help infuse our days with more of those connections. But for me, a great day is, is a day that I feel really connected to my team, um, or connected to, you know, at least one patient that I saw.
Chrissie: [00:19:00] Nice. Anni sees patients with, um, neurogenerative disease and primarily I think in the outpatient setting. Is that right?
Anni: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Chrissie: So, um, folks who are coming in with concerns or, you know, existing diagnoses of dementia, um, as well as probably some a LS and other. Types of things. Right. Um, so we have some overlap, in that I take care of young people with neurologic complexity in one of my jobs.
And, um, I, I understand from my perspective, but I think it's really worthy to, to bring it out in the light, what it's like to work in a field that would maybe make a lot of people feel sad. Yeah. Like circumstances might, might evoke feelings of sadness for most people. And yet there is, um, paradoxically a great deal of joy in serving in that space. Yes. [00:20:00] What have you learned as a clinician doing this paradoxically beautiful work?
Anni: Oh, it's so true, and I'll have to tell you that when I think about joy and think about these tough situations, I think about what first got me interested in this patient population to begin with, which was being an elder companion at a nursing home in high school. Oh. Um, they had this really cool program. It was called Elder Shabb Bars, and Shaar means companion in Hebrew. It was an Eden Alternative Nursing Home where they incorporate pets and plants and all these, um, other cool things into the setting. My job was to go and sit and chat with people and play cards. And a lot of these residents in the nursing home had dementia and I found it just delightful to hear their stories to, you know, sit and, and just be with them, um, when they really just wanted [00:21:00] somebody to talk to or someone. And, and it might've been the same story many, many times. Um, but, but that was okay.
So I, I developed this love for that population really early on, and it has stayed with me. Um, and, and so I do, I meet a lot of, of elderly folks who have lived really full lives and have, this was not in their retirement plan to have this devastating neurologic condition come out of left field for a lot of folks, you know, they don't always have a family history or maybe they have a family history and they really, um did a lot of things and, and felt like maybe this was not going to happen to them. And so there are a lot of tears during my conversations with patients particularly giving, giving a fair amount of bad news. You know, when I see someone for follow up and go over their test results and talk about what I think may be going on, give that diagnosis of mild cognitive impairment [00:22:00] or dementia, and talk about, you know, what the suspected etiology is and what the next steps are.
People often have questions about what does this mean for the future? What does this look gonna look like in one year, two years, five years? And those are really hard, and yet it feels, and I, I suspect you feel this way too, it feels like really a huge honor to be with people in those discussions and to be able to give them the emotional support, um, to be sturdy for them in those discussions and to also validate what they're feeling, to acknowledge the scariness. Um, and I find that people naturally end up using some humor too to help cope in those discussions. And those unexpected pops of humor may come from the patient, may come from a family member. You can just feel the relief [00:23:00] and, and the lightness enter the room. Um.
And I see so many adult children giving affirmations to their parent of support of, I'm gonna be here with you. I mean, and it just, it's not uncommon for me to tear up in these. And again, it just really beautiful moments. Um, and I think it can challenge our notion of what joy is, right? That it can be this, this burst of love in a difficult time.
Chrissie: So beautifully put a burst of love in a difficult time. My own mother turned 93 a little over a week ago. Wow. And she has dementia. Um, and her coping mechanism in life, might have often been denial. And so she kind of slipped into like full on dementia without ever actually grappling with [00:24:00] it. Mm. Um, which I'm just gonna say I think has been a blessing for her. I think that, that, that actually has worked out like pretty well. And I'm too excited not to share this with you, but I need to proceed it like this might sound a little woo and as I've said before in this podcast, my new definition of WOO is wildly open to outcomes, so please bear with me, I'm gonna share a non-evidence based anecdote. Okay. Okay.
So I learned about, um, this pulse electromagnetic field device in the last year. Um, and I know people will ask, the one that I purchased is called I vibe by a company called Reanna. I am not here to endorse or um, give anybody any kind of medical advice. I will say that, especially right now 'cause I'm about to tell you about this device. But my mom began to slip further [00:25:00] and I brought this device to the bedside and asked her caregivers to use it a couple times a day on the Alzheimer's setting. And the theory, I will try to explain to you is that, you know, the, the small sort of iPod sized device emits a electromagnetic, um, vibratory signal that can be measured. You can actually use a magnet on the back of it and see the magnet move. So like something is occurring. And there are many different settings that correlate with different, you know, body systems like. I can't, I, I, I'm not able to explain or certainly ground this further, but I will tell you that when it's your own parent who's losing, you know, like effective swallowing, you're like, well, let me try this. Sounds crazy, but let's see what happens. Anyway. Yeah.
My punchline is that I, when I went back to her, um, after I'd been away working, it was like maybe a week, week and a half after the [00:26:00] practice had started. Not only was she swallowing reliably, she was able to answer questions with sentences. Like we got out the whole like mom's history book and started to do some interview back and forth, which she has been able to do for many months. And I am curious about this anecdote, and I don't know if that is helpful for anyone but I am I, the first time I used it on the A DHD setting for my child, she sat down and did all of her homework one night. So I've got these like pesky anecdotes that are like, pay attention, pay attention to this. So I do not necessarily need you to endorse a firm or even comment, Anni except I, I do think it's interesting and why would I not share it with you in case it was helpful to someone somewhere, sometime.
Anni: Yeah, I mean, it just makes me think about some of the trials that are being done with, uh, TMS, um, mm-hmm. And, uh,
Chrissie: Transcranial magnetic stimulation. For those who don't know.
Anni: [00:27:00] Thank you. Um, absolutely. So, you know, I, I don't know. I, I haven't heard about this device, so I really can't comment further, but Of course. Um, but, but that's cool. That's cool that she's able to participate in some of those things. I mean, that you bring up the, the journal, like the, the life, uh, story and those are so cool. So cool. And I, in our habit program, for individuals with mild cognitive impairment, we use something um, similar to that to help with our support group component and just kind of. Since memories for folks with dementia, and MCI are so clear for the early days and, and not for what happened yesterday. It's, yes, it's a real gift to harness that in a task that brings joy and meaning. Yes. Like. And a sense of mastery, right? Yes, I can put down these, um, these old stories and, and then it's something that the whole family can treasure. So I love that, you know,
Chrissie: my mom lost the ability to [00:28:00] write um, years ago she had this devastating fall in 2020 and ended up with an amputation and has been bedbound since then, which really hastened things for her.
Anni: Oh, sure.
Chrissie: Um, it's a, you know, that's a, an aside, separate from the flood, um, that was described in her early episode. My mom has been through it. She's an incredibly resilient woman. Um, and she wouldn't have been able to write the answers, but as I interview her I have found out details and stories that I just never uncovered because we were in the day to day so much. Mm. You know, we were not saying like, tell me about your experience in fourth grade, or, you know, yeah. Like it was, it's been very cool. So to have her capacity to really talk more than a one or two word, very, very slow, one or two word response has been, um, a real gift. I'm grateful for however long it, it lasts.
Anni: I mean, [00:29:00] I think that's a great example of joy and unexpected circumstances, right?
Chrissie: It truly is. It truly is. I did not, yeah, anticipate that I would be solving for joy in my fifties by interviewing my mom about details of her, you know, early life and like getting giddy when she can remember something and actually report it to me. Or, you know, blending up beef stew and just being over the moon, that she got pleasure out of it. It's, um, it's sweet to be able to care for our elders. I just, it's good to do and I'm so glad that you are able to, um, provide that service and find joy doing it. So I love thinking about a young, you as an elder companion and look at, look at her now. It's amazing. What practices or mindsets help you with your own staying grounded in joy, um, in and out of work?
Anni: [00:30:00] Yeah, so, you know, I'm, I'm for sure an extrovert. Um, and so people, my friends, my family are super important to me. I, I really do get energy being around other people. Moving here, we, we really formed a lot of great friendships, very quickly. Um, and that's been something that has really kept us in this area. You know, and there's that, the cool, um, I think it's the Harvard Study of Happiness, that really the biggest finding right, is that the quality of our relationships is what ultimately really dictates our, our level of happiness overall and at the end of life. And I, I truly believe that, that I found that to be, uh, accurate in my own life for my husband and I and our children.
So those connections, um at work, a lot of friends in different specialties. Um, and so one thing that we do is, you know, if we're we're working on the [00:31:00] same day, we'll just try and pop by each other's office and, and say hi, if we happen to catch each other, which, you know, can be tricky. And if not, we'll leave a little note on a post-it. Um, and stick it on the desk. So I have like a little collection here of post-it notes from friends who have stopped by. And just, you know, might just be like, hi friend. You know, Becca was here, Ginny was here. Um, and, and I keep those. And right here at my monitor, I just glancing down at them gives me that little jolt of feeling connected. And, and so we do make sure, and we spend a lot of time with other folks. We have a neighborhood that's great. There's walking paths and you know, you kind of just need to step outside if you wanna see somebody. Um, and, you know, lots of of friends for the kids. Um, so those connections are really meaningful to me. Um, and I find that if I'm not investing time and energy in those, that I feel less, less joy, kind [00:32:00] of all around, I think.
Chrissie: That definitely tracks with me. I am, I'm fueled by people. Yeah. Yeah. And curiosity. Um,
Anni: yeah. Is it harder, so in your, your current, um, setup, you're at home and going in, is that harder to find those connections?
Chrissie: I don't feel like it is because I'm in contact with so many people, so often in a really deep way that I actually have, you know, maybe, maybe fewer interactions, but deeper interactions. Mm. Um, yeah. So I do miss some of the collegial stuff from like my hospitalist days or having a next door neighbor in the outpatient office. Um. Definitely there's some of that. That's, that I really, the sweetness of that I miss. But I love where I'm at right now.
Anni: [00:33:00] Yeah. You know, it just, it makes me one, one thing I wanna tackle, and I think a lot of places are trying to do this, is how do we best support our remote portion of our workforce? Um, you know, there are a lot of tactics you can use when you have a group of people physically working together that don't really work as well. Um, but, but there's a large portion of our staff who are fully remote and thinking of ways to bring them joy. Um, is it a puzzle that I don't think we've fully solved yet?
Chrissie: My brain, like immediately wants to go into idea generating mode. Um, that was one of the funnest parts about leading wellbeing work, um, for the Oregon region. And uh, for my local hospital in particular was actually generating innovative ways to connect people one of the real highlight fun ones was we went to a [00:34:00] DIY bar and everybody did a little DIY project and had a beer together and you know, like we're there making stuff and yeah, it's like having, you know, art class and craft day and
Anni: it kinda levels the playing field right? And brings out that natural playfulness. Um, that people wouldn't experience outside of that.
Chrissie: Yes, and a little bit of healthy vulnerability.
Anni: Yeah. Yeah.
Chrissie: Love that. Um, what are some practices, um, what are, what's in your hat of tricks and tips for people who would like to deepen their experience of joy and connection at work? Absolutely. And this is not necessarily specific to folks in healthcare.
Anni: Yeah. So. I think, you know what I would focus on were, are what can we do as individuals? Um, not knowing whether the listeners are on a team. Most of us are to some extent, um, or if they're in a leadership [00:35:00] role. You know, there are some different things you might do in those settings, but as an individual so one thing that I use almost every day is, um, something I call joy stacking. So this is where you're going to, to pair a hard task, something that you dread with, something that you love. So for me, and this is a healthcare example, but, but people can extrapolate, I think. Mm-hmm. Dictating patient notes. That is not something that most people look forward to, right? But it needs to happen. So I have found that I'm really a very simple creature because I need only to line up some m and ms and I can just allocate. You know, two m and ms after a note, and I see my little colorful group of m and ms and it keeps me going. And I literally, that's, that's all I need. And suddenly, this is kind of a fun task. I was, that's adorable. [00:36:00] Someone once told me that, you know, I really should be, um, promoting carrot sticks instead of M and mss. Um, since this is wellness and wellbeing, but I'm gonna stick with the m and ms because they do bring me joy.
Chrissie: That's right. Which one has more dopamine today? Hello? Exactly. Exactly. It might be, it might be Reese's Pieces, if ever looking for round candy coated. Hmm. Yeah. Commercially available items.
Anni: So I think, you know, and the underlying message right is, is a. Like, do something like that, and it automatically takes you down a peg from however stressed you are and however seriously you're taking yourself. Mm-hmm. Um, because you realize like, yes, I might be in charge of all these things and at at, at my core, I just need like 10 m and ms and I'll feel, I'll be able to get my work done. Um, so I love that one. And it could, you could, you know, use music or use other things. Of course.
Um. Taking time to [00:37:00] populate your physical environment with things that will visually bring you joy, I think is so important and really low hanging fruit. I mean, I see your office, you have a beautiful orchid, um, and it looks like some other plants behind you. And so I imagine those are strategically Oh, wow. Yeah, that's, and that's something I couldn't pull off. I learned early on when I came here and was gifted a plant that, that's, that, that's something I'm gonna look at and see it dying.
Chrissie: This is an endorsement for orchids from Trader Joe's because Green Thumb is not my gift. Um, but this one on the left, I have actually kept around and it's re bloomed, so Wow. There's hope.
Anni: Oh, well they're super beautiful. And so yeah, the idea is there, um, you know, I have just some things that my kids have made, you know, little pictures and those sort of things. Um, yes, some, some other photos. And a [00:38:00] stuffed llama that is called the Joy Llama, um, that my now 7-year-old son gave me for Christmas one year. Um. That's okay. Uh, but it's a, it's a joy llama. So it's a joy llama because he deemed it that, and it makes me smile when I look at it.
I Think other things folks can do are things like kind of scheduling out your day, even just in blocks, and then look ahead at the morning at when can you spend even just five or 10 minutes outside. Um. I think we all have a bit of a brain transplant phenomenon when we step outside and we, when we think about it from a little bit of a distance, we think, I don't have time for that. I'm, I can't do that. Um, I don't have anywhere to go. And, and it literally, it doesn't have to be a park, it doesn't have to be beautiful. Really just getting that fresh air and stepping away, um, is [00:39:00] huge. And so I really try to do that. And even better if I can take a 20 minute power walk. I think I used to feel guilty at the idea that I could, I would leave work and go do that. And then I, I quickly realized I do some of my best thinking, um, while I'm on that walk and I come back energized and more creative. Yes. And so that's a huge one.
Chrissie: Guilt be banished. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the, the work gets more out of you when you are juiced up. So Exactly. It's really just like plugging yourself in and recharging
Anni: Yes, yes.
Chrissie: Powering through on a low battery.
Anni: Yeah. So the same goes for, you know, eating. Right. It sounds simple, but I think we sometimes feel like, well, it would just be easier if I, if I just have this you know, bar and, and keep on going.
Chrissie: Franken [00:40:00] food is what I like to call it. Yes, we can, we can fill our bellies with Franken food to save time does not create more joy though.
Anni: Yeah. So finding, you know, even if it's, is it just one day a week that you could bring something that feels really good to eat, you know, and, and feels like you're replenishing yourself And can you take 10 minutes to just to turn your monitors off and enjoy your food? Um, those sorts of things. Again, it doesn't, we can do these things despite the world around us, and I like to focus on those things that are within my sphere, um, because sometimes work. You know, I take, I, I take a stock market approach in that there are going to be these highs and lows and I don't, you know, for some people there are times when yes, the, I, the, the answer is leave the job right and find something new. Um, and so [00:41:00] I don't wanna discourage that. And I think there are also plenty of situations where we also need to build our tolerance for the highs and lows that are outside of our control and, and think about what can I do to equip myself and what can I do today right in this moment that helps me feel more stable. It helps me feel that little. Burst of joy, um, helps me feel connected or increases my sense of purpose. Um, those are the things I try and focus on because I think we can quickly spin out focusing on things that we don't have control over and that we would do differently if we were in charge.
Chrissie: Those are wonderful tips. Um, I love them. We will definitely share those in some creative ways, uh, after this podcast airs. And another thing that I [00:42:00] find worth mentioning is that there's a pretty low cost membership to insight timer. And when you have those bubbles in your day where you can, you know, step away from the monitors, let your eye muscles relax, get off of the sitting surface of your body, or sit in a different way get horizontal. Um, insight Timer has so many guided meditations and, um, sort of affirmation kind of things that, I mean, it's like thousands and thousands to choose from. Wow.
And another favorite reset for me, um, which we often will listen to as a grounding exercise, is almost anything sung by the artist beautiful. A beautiful chorus. Um, they are this harmonic, acapella. Group of black women and their, um, the repetitive [00:43:00] nature of that music. Um, and the message underneath it just feels like a whole energy cleansing. So I am grateful for them. Oh, that's so cool. All the time. Yeah.
Anni: I'm writing that down. Beautiful course. I'll check them out.
Chrissie: It has been a joy to have you here. Anni, thank you so much for being here. Um,
Anni: thank you for inviting me and including me in this awesome podcast. Um, I really appreciate it and it's been great.
Chrissie: Absolutely. And I'm sure that folks may want to, um, follow where you write or share ideas. Um, I imagine LinkedIn is probably the best way to do that. Yes. So we'll share, um, a link to Anni's LinkedIn profile so that you can keep track of what is happening with the medical director of Joy at Mayo. Um, thanks for honoring us with your time. [00:44:00] Absolutely. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Yes. May our paths cross again soon.
Anni: Absolutely.
Chrissie: Dr. Anni Shandera-Ochsner everyone, joy stacker, story listener, and the kind of clinician who reminds us that there's still deep beauty in medicine, even when the path is hard. If today's episode gave you a new way to think about joy, not as something loud and flashy, but as meaning, connection and that quiet feeling of being valued, you're not alone. Whether it's a post-it from a colleague, a walk around the block, or a burst of love in a tough conversation, those are the moments that often keep us going.
Next week, we are turning up the volume with Sheletta Brundidge, an Emmy-winning comedian, radio host and founder of Sheletta makes me laugh.com. Sheletta is a force of nature amplifying bipoc voices through joy, [00:45:00] storytelling, and unapologetic truth telling. You will not wanna miss the laughter and lessons packed into this one. And PS We've been friends since junior high school.
If you're a coach or clinician craving real community and honest conversations about reclaiming wellbeing in medicine, the Physician Coaching Summit is for you. We will be gathering in the desert this November and there's still plenty of time to lock in your best rate and reserve a room at Savannah Wellness Resort and Spa. Visit the physician coaching summit.com for all the details. We would love to see you there.
As always, I'm a physician, but I'm not your physician and nothing shared here should be construed as medical advice. These are personal stories and reflections offered in the spirit of connection, and if something sparked in you today, maybe a desire to reconnect with your values, build healthier rhythms, or just remember what joy feels like in your body. Coaching can be a wonderful [00:46:00] and powerful companion. I. Learn [email protected] or check the show notes.
Huge thanks as always. To our brilliant team, Kelsey Vaughn on production, Alyssa Wilkes on post, Denise Crane, behind the scenes, Shelby Brakken photographer and music by Denys Kyshchuk. And as always, for Sue, thank you for cheering us on every step of the way. Keep stacking your joy, keep asking better questions, and may we all keep solving for joy. Take care. I'll see you guys next time.
