Chrissie (Ep 32 - Kim)
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Kim: [00:00:00] if you are struggling, it's not a sign of weakness, right? It's a sign of strength, so that they need to be vulnerable and be willing to raise their voice and ask for help.
Chrissie: if our day was full of that kind of meaningful work, we wouldn't need the word burnout. The quality of connection has so much to do with how we can do our work.
Kim: every time a doctor shares their story and another doctor feels less alone. And that's why I have so many different doctors on my YouTube channel talk about so many different things, to get everyone's message out there, so doctors don't feel like they're alone.
Chrissie: you're listening to Solving for Joy. I'm your host, Dr. Chrissie Ott.
Hello, friends, and welcome to today's episode of the Solving for Joy podcast. [00:01:00] I'm your host, Chrissie Ott, and today I have the distinct pleasure of introducing you to my new friend, Kim Downey. Kim is a physical therapist, a three-time cancer survivor, parentheses. Thyroid and breast. For those of you who have a mind like mine, can't stop wondering about details, Kim did not set out to become LinkedIn famous, but I'm gonna tell you as a side note, she is kind of a big deal in the world of LinkedIn. She's a wellbeing activist who founded standup for doctors, and she did this after losing an absolutely wonderful irreplaceable radiologist, uh, on her cancer team to suicide, she became activated and radicalized after coming in contact with our our common friend, Dr. Michael Hersh, who is also a physician coach [00:02:00] and has benefited firsthand from what coaching can offer.
Uh, I think that Kim probably never realized she was gonna be a public figure hosting a YouTube channel, making the rounds, and being a frequent guest on the Kevin md, uh, podcast and platform but here we are. Just before I hit record, I was saying to Kim, it's like, you really can't even find somebody that Kim's not already connected to on LinkedIn, and two years ago she had like no LinkedIn presence at all. I am really in awe of this phenomenon and it speaks to how much can happen when your passion and purpose are lit a flame. I just wanna start by thanking you, Kim Downey, for answering the call in your heart. It's, it's obvious that it's a passion for you, and I'm so delighted to have you here.
Kim: Thank you very much for that kind and warm introduction and I appreciate the [00:03:00] opportunity.
Chrissie: Absolutely. Um, our podcast, as you know, is about solving for joy. It is about the adaptive maladaptive, expected and unexpected ways that we, um, seek an experience of meaning, alignment, and delight, which is my favorite shorthand understanding for joy. So I'm excited to hear about what role meaning alignment and delight, aKA joy have been playing in your activities as an advocate, an activist for wellbeing in healthcare.
Kim: So that's an interesting question and it hasn't been easy. Uh, I was on, I was the presenter at the American College of Physicians Virtual Doctor's Lounge a week ago, Thursday, and one of the [00:04:00] physicians asked me, because if you know a little of my story, you know, having cancer three times and losing one of my doctors during the pandemic and having a medical complication. You know, for a couple years I wasn't doing so well. I was struggling with some things, but through doing a lot of things, we have a local cancer support center, Ann's Place, and I participated in everything from midweek mindfulness to art, to even some piano lessons, uh, to some writing.
So all of those things help and, um part of a women's fellowship group through my church and during the pandemic, you know, that never stopped. And just to have that support and with family and friends and I tend to be resilient. So it just took me a little longer to come back this time. But once I came back, I do just look for the joy and find it and the gratitude from physicians keeps me going every day.
Chrissie: I love that [00:05:00] you look for the joy and find it. It's like we find what we look for and you are, are new to me, Kim, at least in, in person. But I can sense through just images of you that your energy points to a human with an indomitable spirit. So well done, well done on that. Thank you.
Um. I am not, thankfully a cancer survivor at this time in my life, but my wife is. We had an experience with ovarian cancer diagnosed in 2022. Thankfully, she is more than two years out from chemo now and no evidence of disease. So we're extremely grateful. But I think that sometimes just knowing, that somebody has been in or close to that. Seat or experience, um, and sort of cements and grounds are our common experience together.
I've also been working in wellness since [00:06:00] medical school. I actually founded my first wellbeing group in med school. My second one was poetry heels in residency. And then I, you know, went through the. All of the hoops of being an early career physician and wound up here 20 years later as a physician coach and wellbeing leader. So we have a lot of overlap in our, in what we care about, in our passionate about. Um, so thank you for, for doing that work.
Kim: You are welcome. And, uh, during the time that I had my cancers, actually three of my good friends died of cancer, and two had the cancers that I had, one had thyroid cancer, one had breast cancer, and the other one had ovarian cancer. So I'm also feel like I have to make my life worth it. Right. And move forward, you know, with joy, um, you know, for my friends that aren't here to be able to do that.
Chrissie: Yeah. There's, um, there's a lot of utility in, in seeing our life with that extra [00:07:00] infusion of purpose when we have seen the possibility of, of losing our time on this planet. I am, I'm so grateful. You're doing well. And I'm sorry that you lost your friends. Um. It sounds like you used all the tools, you used a lot of tools to get through that hard spot. Um, how did coaching play into that for you when you connected with Michael Hersh? What was that like for you? I.
Kim: Well, he was my initial, initial introduction to everything because I was just a typical Facebook user. Mm-hmm. Like anybody else. And it was the spring of 2022 where his blog, Better Physician Life, showed up on my Facebook feed and we'll never know why he had been blogging for four months. You know, he is in Chicago, I'm in Connecticut. We had nothing in common. And, and, and the other reason is I have no idea why I clicked on it. It had nothing to do with me or what I was doing. [00:08:00]
So in retrospect, I'm guessing maybe it showed up a few times because I just don't think that I would've clicked on it. Um, but also why would it have showed up a few times? But I did, and his writing just resonated with me and he linked a music video, uh, and he nailed it. And so I went back and read every blog post. He had been blogging for four months, and I noticed. That he dropped them on Wednesdays. So every Wednesday it was like a little treat. I would like go to his website and I would read his blog posts. So it was, um, my, then my doctor died that September. I found out in October, and then in December he shared a blog that he was celebrating his year of blogging.
So again, totally randomly, I've never done anything like this, but I just sent him a private, uh, Facebook message. I just said, congratulations on your year of blogging. Your poster really resonated with me. And then he sent me like a really nice message back. And then we just started communicating and I was really [00:09:00] struggling with the death of my doctor.
So after a few days of us communicating, I said, you know, could I tell you about him? Like, I thought I, I knew he was coaching physicians. I didn't really know what that entailed, but I'm like, could I pay you for a session? 'cause I didn't know what to do to feel better. And he's like, uh, you know, he says, I'd love to talk to you the first, you know, one is no charge. So it was New Year's Eve morning of 2022. We had a Zoom call and I told him the whole story and then we just kept chatting. And then after that Zoom call, we just kept communicating. And then, um, he did start coaching me in January. We did it weekly for 12 weeks. And he helped me process and accept a lot of things and that was how I moved forward.
And then it was him that connected me on LinkedIn. 'cause I was trying to find a way to help my local doctors in our healthcare system. And I thought maybe if I talked to other doctors, they'd have some ideas. So I said, you know, is LinkedIn, is it worth it to go [00:10:00] on LinkedIn? 'cause I had less than 150 connections, none were doctors. And my kids had set me up the page like 10, 12 years ago and I never, ever, ever went on it. So he said, yeah, it. And, uh, he, and then, then I didn't even know how to make a connection, so I asked him, he is like, you know, you click on the three dots and he is like, oh, I'll just send you a request. So, uh, yeah. And then now I'm, I have like over 12,000 followers and it's just about all doctors. So
Chrissie: 12,000?
Kim: Yeah. I think just this weekend I think I hit like 12,000.
Chrissie: Wow. Kim. Wow. Um. I love that so much. I mean, I'm in awe right now that there's just like a little bit of magic in the algorithm. You know, like your life changed and then you became a Lorna Breen hero, uh, heroes Ambassador, and then you founded Standup for Doctors. So there's this massive cascading [00:11:00] ripple of change that happened all because of this tiny little sliding doors moment where you clicked on something that the algorithm served you. I'm in awe of that. We are here today talking because of that, and I mean, I'm not one to worship the algorithm guys, but I'm just still like maybe there's a little divine intervention there. Maybe it was just like that was the tool because you were meant to be connected and sparked by Michael Hersh. Yeah.
Kim: Yeah. Well that's why it had to be God or the universe throwing me a bone because I was really struggling. Yeah. And it's been a, it's just been incredible. And then, you know, we found ways to support each other. And then, um, so my early connections, 'cause he had just started his, um, podcast Doctors Living Deliberately. So then I would watch every single episode and then I would reach out again. At first it was on Facebook. Mm-hmm. Uh, because I wasn't on LinkedIn yet. [00:12:00] And I would tell his guests how much I appreciated their episodes. So then when I got on LinkedIn, those were some of my first connections. Uh, because I recognize the names.
Chrissie: So. Oh, that's amazing. You know, it also really speaks to me, Kim, because a lot of the people who come to me for coaching are suffering and are at a turning point or they, they sense like, I'm not sure how to feel better. I have a sense of a vision on the other side of this thing. What are the steps to feel better? What are the steps for me to get, um, in touch with this, uh, you know, this, this thing that I sense wants to come through me. I think that this work is coming through you more than from you. Would you agree with that?
Kim: I absolutely would, because again, I didn't plan on doing any of this. You know, I was working as a pediatric physical therapist, you know, helping little kids learn how to [00:13:00] do sit-ups and hop on one foot. Yes. And I did leave amidst my, uh, health challenges and I was going to spend that winter, that December, 'cause I left on November 30th, 2021. And I was gonna just enjoy the holidays because I didn't know that I was about to discover, you know, I had the first breast cancer, then I had another breast cancer. So I never really had a chance to figure out what I was going to do or what was gonna be the next step. And then things just started happening.
Chrissie: You know, those moments are like moments of plurry potentiality, you know, like a, like a stem cell is pluripotent. It means that it has multiple paths. Ahead of it, and we're actually always pluripotent, in my opinion. We sort of forget that we always have some stem cell potential within us, but we can make a different choice in any domain of our life, any day of the week and completely [00:14:00] change our trajectory forever. Not to mention the trajectories of those around us and those whose lives have we touched. So I will just iterate again what I said earlier. Thank you, Kim, for answering the call because it just is such an obvious, um, it's an obvious calling for you.
Kim: That's what I felt like after my doctor died. I don't know how else to describe it. Then I felt a calling to support doctors and I have, um, his memorial card on my bulletin board above my desk. And above that I have a post-it note that says "I'm meant to support them." So when it gets hard and challenging, I just look up and always remember my why.
Chrissie: You know, I think of it as such a example of posttraumatic growth also. Um, I mean, if you had not had the complex trauma, you would not be having this complex joy experience.
Kim: That's true. And that's in the, well I've [00:15:00] read, the Body Keeps the Score. And, um, you know, I've, I've learned a lot from that. And also there's another book that I, I can't think of the name right now that I've referenced a lot that speaks to that post-traumatic growth. And I would agree.
Chrissie: Yeah. It's like, um, you know, tragedy plus time equals comedy, but tragedy plus time plus resources equals post-traumatic growth or transformation. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It is, it's wonderful to, to see and to highlight it and get to platform it even just a little bit from, from this standpoint.
I have heard you talk in standup for doctors about the need for docs to raise their voices. And even though we're saying docs, you and I both know that we have an inclusive view and this extends to all of our healthcare, um, friends, our allied health professionals, our PAs, our nps, our nurses, our CNAs, we. Are all one big family in [00:16:00] distress in this time, especially in the US healthcare system. Um, one of the containers in Joy Point Solutions is ROAR, it's this container just for physicians and the acronym is Reclaim Our Brains. So a lot of mindset work own our power. Figure out where we actually have power, access our joy and raise our voices and vibrations. And I hear standup for doctors in that fourth part of the acronym.
So I would love to hear like, what is your best practice message for, you know, your, your workaday physician who's trying to get through right now, what do you think is the most effective way for somebody to think about raising their voice?
Kim: Well, there's lots of things they can do, you know, individually and collectively, and sometimes it's even, you know, raising your voice, just where you work to [00:17:00] support your colleagues in a way that is safe. That's one thing that you could do. And then also, uh, physicians can write whatever they're comfortable, you know right of using your voice doesn't have to mean vocally. It can also mean through writing. And uh, Kevin MD is, you know, one great platform for that. And also Somi Docs, you know, if everyone's familiar with that.
Yes, Dana Corielle.
Kim: And yes, that, and I've had them both on my YouTube channel as well. So you'll have to be on, we'll have to reciprocate here. I'll put you on my list.
Chrissie: Thank
Kim: you. And, um, and also, and then, and, you know, and stand up for doctors. That is, well, you know why I said why have the YouTube channel is I say, uh, so, um, actually soon gonna interview, uh, Dr. Kathy Stepian. And who says who She shared with me in a private LinkedIn message that everyone wins when physicians are well, that's, and that's practically become my mantra because that means so much. And that's why patients need the care because Right, if [00:18:00] you have a doctor who's, you know, burnt out and not doing well, um, they're not in a position to give you the best care. So we all need to care. So I'd say the doctors that are doing well, i, it's great to hear stories from doctors who are thriving and to find out what's working for them so that if they can share those messages and podcasts and articles and with their peers. And then also, um, you know, if you are struggling, there's so many doctors who have, and it's not a sign of weakness, right? It's a sign of strength, so that they need to be vulnerable and be willing to raise their voice and ask for help.
Chrissie: Yes. So much. Yes. Um, I was part of a book, uh, called Thriving After Burnout, um, at the end of 2023. You probably know some,
Some of our friends,
I do. I have it.
Chrissie: One of my burnout stories or part of my burnout stories in that book [00:19:00] as well. And that is such a wonderful example of physicians coming together collectively to tell their stories and share them. Now it's about like getting those stories in people's hands or finding the time for them to hear them or read them. Um, which is why I love podcast format because we can share stories in shorter, lower commitment, bubbles of time. Uh, and sometimes that's all we really have. You know, I was speaking to a beloved physician client just this morning who realized that he was experiencing moral injury.
Kim: Mm-hmm.
Chrissie: And he actually, like, it was a stop, drop and roll moment for him, and he canceled some shifts, but is now facing, you know, like a really devastating sense of guilt and uncertainty and worry, um, because it wasn't a true illness. I'm using quotey fingers for those of you who [00:20:00] aren't seeing me. Um. And I, I just wanna validate that what, what you are working on, what you are just now describing is alive and well in real people, high functioning, highly successful, highly trained individuals all of the time.
This person is not comfortable being complicit with the intolerable barriers to care that the system presents to patients. And the traumatized patient is unkind sometimes to the traumatized caregiver who is unkind, uncareful sometimes with the traumatized patient and this, um, you know, vicious cycle is born where trust is eroded and the care is taken away from healthcare. Just so sad. [00:21:00] Um, but I love that you are pointing to some of the actual actions that people can take, including writing articles, telling their stories and uniting with other people who are doing the same.
Kim: People I know with, uh, Dana Corielle and I think, uh, Kevin MD as well, people can submit things anonymously if they're not comfortable, uh, sharing their name.
Chrissie: If you know the detailed information, and we can put this in the show notes, Kim. Mm-hmm. But what's the best way to submit, um, an article either, you know, pinned or anonymous to Kevin MD? Or to, uh oh, it's really easy.
Kim: So if you go to his website at the top of the page, um, there would be a toolbar. And when you click on it, it just says like, it's like opinion at Kevin. It tells you how there's something that tells you how, like reach out or if you want, submit an article and then it's just like a opinion at Kevin MD or something like that.
Chrissie: [00:22:00] Amazing. Okay, friends, hear that. And if it calls you to take action, let's do it.
Kim: Yep. And let's do it together. Al you know the Somi Doc's website, you can go on there and there's links, I believe, to reach out to write something there as well.
Chrissie: Amazing. Um. I've worked in organizational wellbeing leadership for my institution, and, um, and I've trained as a chief wellness officer with Stanford. So we can talk about, you know, solutions and we can talk about ROI, we can talk about organizational values. Um, I'm curious. If you are seeing a trend from your perspective as an advocate, an activist about what people are reporting moves the needle most for the suffering and oppression of [00:23:00] physicians and clinicians in these oppressive and somewhat extractive healthcare systems.
Kim: So right now it seems to be raising your voice because before the pandemic these issues weren't as widely talked about, and everyone was suffering in silence and everyone felt siloed. And the pandemic really did seem to break it open. So I say so many times, every time a doctor shares their story and another doctor feels less alone. And that's why I have so many different doctors on my YouTube channel talk about so many different things, and then we collaborate on. So many different articles to get everyone's message out there, so other, so doctors don't feel like they're alone. So I think that is really important.
And actually, um, right now, so in the fall part, as part of Medicine Forward, we did an open [00:24:00] space event prior to the Burnout Symposium in New York City. And we called the question, how do we restore and nurture the human connection that's so needed in healthcare today? And for anyone not familiar with open space technology, the people that show up decide what the workshop is gonna be. So they, um, wanna, whatever they wanna speak to, they raise their hand and we put post-it notes up or that was old fashioned way. Now it's the smart board, right? And then people got in groups to discuss those things. So one doctor raised his hand and he said, we are expected to, and we do have so much empathy for patients, sometimes they don't know the struggles we face, how can we foster empathy and patience for us?
So again, that's a lot of what I'm trying to do and what my work is about. So we had a follow up Zoom on December 16th, um, in coordination with the healthcare Reinvention collaborative. And I facilitated that breakout room [00:25:00] and there were about a dozen people. They are, and they all wanted to keep going. And we talked about what could we do, what should we do? So we took off with that and we decided to make a big impact for Doctor's Day, you know, which is the Sunday, March 30th, and we wanted to have a big, uh, card writing campaign. We wanted everyone to thank a doctor. And so that's one way. And uh, actually we said even if you are a doctor, so there's one doctor who works with people with Down Syndrome and he is writing thank yous to his residents and his faculty. So they are getting a, some of them are getting a thank you note from, uh, supervisor. And, um, we said, imagine how a doctor would feel getting a note from another doctor, how they impacted their life, whether it was one of your friends back from residency or a colleague now that you know, stepped up or acknowledged you in some way.
So now that that event, we've been sending a [00:26:00] lot of thank you notes and spreading the word for that is in April, we are going to have a few, um, sessions where we talk about our mission, vision, and values, and figure out what we're going to do moving forward to move the needle most. And people might be interested in doing different things and they can work on what they wanna work on most. Like we might decide, well, we wanna have a march of, uh, a national March of patients and physicians. So if that calls to you, you, you can be in that group.
If you wanna work on, you know, restoring physician autonomy, what can we do that we don't have to wait for insurance companies? Because there are little things that individual physicians are finding and ways to protect. You know, their autonomy and uh, so they can share that with other doctors. So there's lots of things. So I think the way, the biggest ways maybe we're gonna move the needle might yet to be determined.
Chrissie: Awesome. I love that you're doing [00:27:00] that. Um, for Doctor's Day, I'm gonna confess to a little secret. I have some innate cynicism about Doctor's Day born out of working in, um, hospitals and institutions where it was totally lip service day for me. It was the Valentine's Day of, you know, professional recognition and, and that's because I don't have super lovely feelings about Valentine's Day. I think it's sort of performative. Mm-hmm. Anyway, sidebar. Um, I think that if it were renamed thank a Dr. Day, it actually would be a little bit more meaningful. Um mm-hmm. And administrations rightly need to do something. Of course they do. But anybody working front, frontline medicine will tell you pizza is not. Pizza is missing the mark friends. Not that we don't appreciate food, but you know, that's just not gonna make, it's not gonna move the needle.
However, [00:28:00] when a patient or a patient's family spontaneously pens and shares a note of recognition and how they were touched, that is like rocket fuel. That is the wind beneath our wings. That reminds us why we're here, why we work night shifts, why we do, you know, 30 plus hours in a row sometimes, especially in training. That, that's what you will find in my keepsake folder in my file cabinet are the many, many, many touching notes all the way back to residency when a human connection was formed, when a heart was touched, when the, the facts that I memorized in medical school came alive and served somebody for the greater good.
Like that is, those are holy moments. Those are sacred connections. And if our day was [00:29:00] full of that kind of meaningful work, we wouldn't need the word burnout. We really wouldn't. I mean, yes, of course we can still drown in, in good deeds, but the quality of connection has so much to do with how, how we can do our work.
Kim: Absolutely. Uh, doctors have shared that a thank you can change from a patient can change the trajectory of their entire day. And the last time I talked to my doctor, I was at the beach and he called me to thank me for my thank you note.
Chrissie: You can know for sure that that buoyed him, that that helped him even, even in the pain that eventually ended his life, I feel like I can speak that truth without, without a right to, I know that it helped him. I know that it mattered. Thank you for being a patient who could see their doctor as a human being, and thank you for being the kind of [00:30:00] voice in the world that is asking other people to please see their physicians as human beings so that the physicians can see everyone else as human beings back. It is a healing cycle instead of a vicious cycle.
I wrote a TEDx talk.
Chrissie: um, a couple years ago. I actually haven't, um, performed it, but it was, it was really overlapping with this message. Like, there are things that people can do and we will all be patients at some point. If every single one of us will be at the mercy of physicians and we need them to be well.
Kim: Exactly. And that there's things that doctors and patients can do and you know, be kind right to each other and show respect for each other. Yes. And there is a power, one physician was talking with me and saying that there is a power differential and in some way the physician has a responsibility to [00:31:00] show that they're human and let little pieces of themselves show. And, uh, you know, don't hold onto that armor so tightly that you're taught to wear as physicians. And then a hundred percent when the patients see, if you allow them to see a little of your humanity, you know, then they can re, you know, reciprocate back and see you as humans and have more empathy.
Chrissie: I could not agree more. I mean, um, I'm blanking on the Dr. Clown's name right now. That Robin Williams played in that movie.
Kim: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. All of a sudden I'm having a bring
Chrissie: Patch Adams,, yes, yes. We, we all need just a little scot of Patch Adams in us not to that we need to be clowns. Um, I know that most of my neurosurgeon friends are not feeling very clowny, and that's okay. But it is okay to bring your full humanity into the room. It is okay to find somewhere on the spectrum between [00:32:00] Patch Adams and robot like like err on the side of Patch Adams just a little bit.
I'll tell you a super funny secret story. I don't think I've ever told this in public before, Kim, but when I was a resident leading my team at the uh, Houston VA Medical Center, which is this mammoth federal building, smaller only than the Pentagon, literally, it's a ginormous hospital. But we took care of vets. You know, a whole, whole lot of doing the impossible every day is what goes on at any VA hospital. Um, and it's largely run by trainees and they are working their tails off every day and learning a ton from these wonderful veterans, men and women.
So some of my very, very most valuable formative, early training memories are at the VA hospital. There's this one vet, of course, he was there with COPD, he had lung disease, he needed BiPAP on, he needed, uh, some oxygen and he just kept pulling it off. He wasn't delirious, he was just ornery. [00:33:00] And I made a bargain with him that I would stand on my head if he kept his mask on and he looked at me like I was insane. 'cause I was a little bit insane. Um, just from sleep deprivation and also
Kim: Right.
Chrissie: Probably still being in my late twenties. Um, anyway, I stood on my head in the hospital room
Kim: Whoa.
Chrissie: As part of my negotiation patient to keep his mask on and we all had a fantastic laugh. I'm not saying it fixed it forever, but it sure brought some unexpected levity to the situation instead of just another lecture about why he needed to keep it on, you know? Mm-hmm. He got, he got to have a laugh. We got to kind of play with the power differential and, um. I think everybody had a better day because of it. I was a second year resident then, so I was [00:34:00] also modeling like crazy, the good, kind of crazy, um, with with my interns and be like, yeah, you can do unscripted things, my friends. You can do things that seem ridiculous and sometimes they're effective and you are actually gonna create a stronger therapeutic bond with your patient than if you just stood there stiffly, using big words and carrying a clipboard.
Kim: I agree. We used to dress up for Halloween with our team once I was, uh, snow White and uh, my staff was the Seven Dwarfs and things like that. So we used to have a lot. And then one day, um. One year my friend lent me, her, uh, her and her husband had gone around as m and ms, but it was like this, you know, they had the blanket filling in there. So I was like, so cozy. I just wanted to take a nap. So that costume was probably a mistake for the day.
Chrissie: That's funny. I think that, um. [00:35:00] Connecting with our creative wisdom is a big part of returning to joy and solving for joy. And when I use the word creative along with the word wisdom, some people are thinking, you know, what does this mean? Does this mean you're saying I should be a painter? No, it doesn't. But I am saying that there is a path back to, um some kind of creative impulse within. And it might be, you know, an ambition to lead a group. It might be that is your creative impulse. It might be an uh, a. An impulse to write a book, a memoir. It might be an impulse, even if as a physician to write, maybe it's a fiction story that occurs in the setting of a hospital that you know, like the back of your hand, and you can describe in detail what the sound of a gurney moving through the hallways is.
You know, like maybe there's just something inside each of us that needs the match to be [00:36:00] struck against the box a little bit. And I think that releasing instead of suppressing our creative impulses has something to do with discovering unbounded joy and, um, surprisingly delightful paths forward. What do you see with creativity in your work advocating for doctors Kim?
Kim: Well, what immediately comes to mind is that, uh, you might not be familiar with Amber Pena Posey, she's a nurse practitioner. Oh, you are?
Chrissie: Probably because we are commonly linked with you, girl.
Kim: Okay. Alright, well maybe that's it. So I actually, so I had her on with uh, Shideh Shafie. Ah, okay. After she, she uhhuh. So I had them on together and then Amber sent me this exercise to do and some people might have said it was a little woo, but I'm, I'm open to Woo now right? So I was doing it and then you were supposed [00:37:00] to whatever like she had you do or write down or think about. Then you were supposed to do something in three day, whether like, you know, dance or do some kind of art. And at first I'm like, I'm not gonna be able to think of anything.
But I thought of, okay, well what do I love to do? And I was like, oh, you know, like I love to walk on the beach and I love to talk to doctors. So like, I, like, you know, I cut out a, a heart and then I collect seaglass. So when my doctor died, you know, I, like I told you, I was at the beach. So I go back there, I like to walk and think and I pick up pieces of sea glass. So I was inspired to make a sea glass heart. So then I started sending these to my doctors, and then that ended up being the basis for my, uh, standup for doctor's logo, which is, uh, it's, it's hard to tell that it's a patient giving a doctor a hand, like that's the cuff sleeve. And then in the back is the mosaic heart, so that became my logo.
Chrissie: That is so sweet. [00:38:00] Yes. I love that. And I love that we have Amber Pena Posey in common too.
Kim: Shout out to Amber and Shideh..
Chrissie: That's so fun. And Michael. And Erin
Kim: and Michael. Yeah. And right. And Aaron, everybody,
Chrissie: we can just keep, keep naming him down the line. Um, that is a really beautiful, beautiful gesture.
Kim: Oh. And also Charity Hix.She's the one that helped me 'cause I had a vision, but I'm, um, not very good with technology. So it was Dr. Charity Hix offered. She says, I help you, I'll help you. And she went on Canva. So she's the one that actually brought it to life. So I, I have to give charity a shout out as well.
Chrissie: Amazing. You know, you were mentioning the woo I'm going to say my definition of Woo, as far as I know, I, I, um, coined this. Is I've turned it into an acronym and it is wildly open to outcomes. [00:39:00] So I have found a very clear way to embrace the Woo, and I make that available to anybody who would like to embrace the woo without feeling that they have lost their frontal filter. It's, it's actually just wildly open to outcomes.
Um. I am so grateful for these themes about healing and connection and joy, physician wellbeing, clinician wellbeing. So grateful that you have stepped out of your comfort zone and have been connected to so many amazing people. I know that you are a super connector and you're gonna keep connecting and doing this work, hopefully for many, many years on. How can people best connect with you, Kim?
Kim: Well, I'm always on LinkedIn, so you can find me on LinkedIn and, um, you know, my new, my YouTube channel is Standup for Doctors and I also [00:40:00] have a monthly sub stack, uh, newsletter of the same name.
Chrissie: That is wonderful. And any last takeaways for clinicians who are running a little short on their connection to Joy right now?
Kim: I just say reach out, right? Just tell somebody, talk to, whether it's, you know, a friend, a colleague, a pastor, a coach, uh, a anyone. Just say, you know, I'm feeling a little low. Um, or just share a little bit of yourself, and then other people might feel comfortable sharing a little bit with you, and then you'll feel less alone and you can support each other.
Chrissie: Beautiful. Thank you so much for being with us, Kim.
Kim: You're welcome. Thanks again. I enjoyed our conversation.
Chrissie: We will talk again soon.
Kim Downey, everyone, resilient, wholehearted, and [00:41:00] one of the fiercest advocates for clinician wellbeing out there. If today's conversation reminded you that healing can begin with a sea glass heart, a single story, or a thank you note, you're not alone. Kim shows us that post-traumatic growth isn't just possible, it's powerful. Her journey reminds us that when we name our pain, connect with others and keep showing up with love, we create ripples that can reshape the system.
And next week we're shifting our focus to another kind of healing. This time from the inside out. Dr. Anni Shandera-ochsner is a clinical neuropsychologist and the medical director of Joy at Mayo Clinic. She leads the Habit program helping people with mild cognitive impairment find tools for resilience and independence, and we'll explore memory how joy plays a role, even in the work of supporting those with neurodegenerative conditions and also what we can do to connect with moments of joy at work.
And a quick note to my fellow physician [00:42:00] coaching friends, if the Physician coaching Summit is on your radar now as the time to register, we have an incredible speaker lineup coming your way and a limited block of deeply discounted rooms at Savannah Wellness Resort and Spa, which is an incredible, incredible facility. Lock in your best pricing and secure your spot now at the physician coaching summit.com. We cannot wait to see you there.
And as always, I am a physician, but not your physician. And the stories here are meant to spark reflection, not replace professional care.
If something stirred in you today and you're feeling the pull to raise your voice, reconnect to purpose, or simply rest for a moment, coaching can be a powerful mirror and companion on that path. Learn [email protected] or check out the links in the show notes. Huge thanks as always to our behind the scenes dream team, produced by [00:43:00] Kelsey Vaughn, Post-Production by Alyssa Wilkes operations, Denise Crane, theme music by Dennis Kyshchuk, cover photography by Shelby Brakken and as always, a warm thank you to my sweet wife, Sue Sanchez, my number one fan and champion. Thanks everybody for being here, for listening. Keep choosing your wholeness, telling the truth even if your voice shakes and may we all keep solving for joy. We'll see you next time.
