Joy: My why is that I understand everything that women are up against. And working mom is up against, and how in the world can I make her life easier?
Chrissie: May people be empowered, emboldened, and fortified with regard to their nutrition and to their self determination, as they enter the perimenopausal , or menopausal state.
Joy: there is actually an incredible amount of joy that you can have if you change the narrative around what I'm doing in the kitchen. Is it another thing that I have to do? Or is it something that I actually get to do that nourishes me
Chrissie: You're listening to Solving for Joy. I'm your host, Dr. Chrissie Ott.
Hello, and welcome to this episode of Solving for Joy. Today, we are joined by our very first guest whose name is Joy. This is Joy Ruby. She is the founder and CEO of Acme and also Spade and Spoon. And her story is just as nourishing as the work that she does and leads. Joy Ruby is, uh, a great source of joy in my life. Um, we should count how many times we say the word joy today as you are named joy. Um, but her passion for sustainability, food, community, and family comes from a deeply personal place. She understands firsthand the challenges of caregiving, the weight of health struggles, and the power of making intentional choices for ourselves and for the people that we love. Joy is a former architect, and as such, she really knows how to design systems that work. And she's brought that creativity and ingenuity and point of view to reimagining how we think about food. She's been leading a quiet, hopefully becoming less quiet, revolution in local food systems, making it so much easier for families like mine to access fresh, seasonable, sustainable meals without sacrificing convenience or quality. And I am going to testimonialize all over the place about the details of that in just a moment, what I think is most inspiring and that I hope the joy will, grace us with her her point of view is about her why, um. Her belief that the choices we make every day, how, how we eat, how we connect and how we care for ourselves and each other can transform not only our health but our entire world around us. So this journey is one of resilience, heart, and determination to leave the world a little better than she found it. So please join me in welcoming Joy Ruby. Thank you so much for being here with me today, Joy.
Joy: Well, thanks for having me on today and just getting to see your face. I mean, I think it was nine years ago, probably when we were opening in Portland and I got sat down with a few, a few of our customers and yes, we got to chat way back when, and it's been really busy ever since for both of us, for both of us, but
Chrissie: yes. Yeah, I had a medical practice right around the corner from this wonderful restaurant, Ned Ludd, and you guys did an opening event and I was so excited from the get go about the idea of having a locally curated and sourced meal kit that was not full of tiny pieces of plastic that we would never ever reuse enough to justify their existence. And, uh, yeah, I can't wait to just tell people what a love story this actually is for me to get to have you and share a little bit about the way that your work has solved for joy in my life.
Joy: Yeah. Well, and I think that, you know, when you talk about why, I mean, I think you led up to a lot of, a lot of the things that I think about every single day, um, from like, literally like what am I feeding my child to like, how am I nourishing myself and how are we connecting around food and how are the choices, you know, that I'm making today impacting my daughter's future, their water supply, you know, their soil health, like all these things, they really start with the decisions we make today. And so. I've, I, there's always a lot going on in my head, but I always go back to, like, why I'm doing this. And, you know, and it boiled down to, I knew five people with terminal cancer, and this is when I was in my mid 30s. And I was working as an architect and I just wanted to know where my daughter's food was going to come from. And I was like, I can't control everything, but I could control what I put into her body. But, um, I work a lot and I'm already juggling that and being a mom. So how the hell am I going to go to a farmer's market and to the co op and to the other grocery store to, like, fill in all these blanks? I also wasn't an awesome cook. Um, I didn't, I had like the same things on repeat and I'd never cooked a whole chicken. And so I was like, Oh my gosh, we could only get whole chickens. Like this is going to be an adventure. So it's always this why I'm like, I just wanted to, and I always have said this. I just wanted to feed my daughter good food. And it's funny because over the weekend I was on a walk in the woods and I always have like these moments when I'm walking in the woods and I was thinking about this conversation that we're gonna have today and, and I thought, I, I always say that this is about my daughter, you know, like, what kind of future am I going to let leave her? What kind of food am I going to feed her? What kind of, you know, like, and then I realized like, come on, this is about me, you know, like, this is the hack that I needed so that I could feed my daughter good food so that I could do these things. But ultimately, like, like I'm at a new chapter. This is, you know, I started the company 13 years ago, almost 14 years ago. And right now I'm solving like the issue of how do I feed my body? How do I nourish this body? Cause I really was focused on nourishing my daughter's body. And now, and now I'm like, how am I going to help women do this? How are we going to help other women like hit their stupid protein count and fiber count? You know, like, and that was never a thought of, you know, before. And so it's like, Oh my gosh, wait a second. My why is that I understand everything that women are up against. And working mom is up against, and how in the world can I make her life easier? Really, that's, that is, and healthier, and like, how can we thrive through this? And how can our kids thrive through this? So, I think my why might be, I think I might have to redefine a little bit my why, but there's, there's heart into it. You know, 14 years ago, There was a, there was that moment that, that, that flipped a switch, but yeah.
Chrissie: I love it developing why, you know, I mean, we're all developing stories and there's no need for it to stay static. So your why 11 years ago has developed along with you or become like an even bigger, more inclusive why perhaps. Totally. And having that alignment and actually being able to engage in aligned, meaningful action that delights you is one of my very core definitions of solving for joy. And without even, um, that is your foreground goal. You have helped thousands of other people solve for joy because this is, I'm telling you, the number one life hack in my entire world and has been for a decade almost. Um,
So I'm going to tangentialize just a little bit and tell you guys this love story for me. Um, when I discovered ACME, my child was small and I do cook and I love to cook, but I never have loved utilizing my valuable brain space and bandwidth to meal plan or to acquire the ingredients, and I think that I have a disproportionately negative reaction to lacking that one ingredient. And so when I realized that I could do things like tell AI to give me a recipe for these five things that I had in my fridge, that was a pretty cool thing. But, Acme has that beat. In spades or spade and spoon, funny. So when the pandemic started, especially, um, it was after the flood that I detailed a few episodes back. And so, you know, pre pandemic, I had my mom and my brother in my household. I was cooking for them all the time. It was definitely not having the brain space to do effective meal planning. And going to the grocery store was kind of a big deal back then, right? So the fact that Acme was still happening and I could create restaurant quality food in my house every night with gorgeous quality local ingredients that would show up on my doorstep. I mean, this is profound pleasure to me.
And I'm not going to lie. I like how it makes me look in the kitchen. I look good. I'm a great cook. People come to my house. They're like, Oh, will you make that thing again? Oh, was that an Acme meal? My friends in Minnesota and North Carolina and other places are always like, well, do they have that where I live? Because it's been such a blessing in our life. So we're recording this the week after Thanksgiving and, um, The Acme box, which is the name of the, the version near me in the Northwest, um, has an entire like Thanksgiving box, everything but the turkey basically. And that stuffing is on point joy. I mean, it's so good. Um, two mornings ago I made apple scones with my daughter. Let me tell you, there is no parallel universe that I can think of in which I would have made apple scones with my daughter if I didn't have that recipe. Um, and. You know, Michael Pollan and many others have told us for eons, like no matter what you do at home as a home cook, you're going to have a more nutritious experience, less saturated with, highly processed foods or highly preservativized foods. Um, you're going to do better. It's going to have less sugar. It's going to have less salt. Um, no matter what you're doing, doing it at home is going to be better and so much less expensive then what I would, you know, pay for one meal out with my family.
So ACME has really replaced those nights of like, you know, screw it, we'll just you know, door dash or something. It really doesn't happen. It's a very rare occurrence in my house because there are these build your own meal boxes and 30 minute meals. So I can even say, Oh, I know it's going to be an intense week. I'm only going to get 30 minute meals. This is going to be fantastic. Um, it's just been amazing.
Joy: I love that.
Well, it sounds like what we're, I mean, we, we've designed this for you. Like this is, this is designed for you. Like, and what, what is, to come. Like how old is your daughter?
Chrissie: My child is 11 and she even asks me, Oh mom, this was so good. Oh, your white beans, sausage, kale soup, right?
Joy: Yep. Or chart.
Chrissie: She's like, could you make this for my birthday? Like that's how much she loves it. And then she kind of looks at me and he's like, is this an Acme meal? Yeah. Like, I don't get quite full credit.
Joy: You're, you're right at this point that all of these years that you've been in the, in the kitchen cooking and you've made scones with her, all of a sudden there is a shift and it happens right around, it started, it started, Inching in a little bit about 10 and then it took off at 12 where Anna just makes everything now. Like she'll just, she just goes in and she knows how to make any type of egg. She knows how to make soup. She loves to make minestrone. She makes all of the baking kits. Like it's just amazing that she's super comfortable in the kitchen and I never was like that as a kid. Like I, we just didn't gather in the kitchen, you know, like we didn't, We gathered around the table, my mom made meals a lot for us. They were not necessarily good, but they fed us and a lot of us. Um, but it's really something special. And I think when you, when you're, I'm also going to say that I think we're also the same age. So when you started and your child was younger, You really needed us for a different level and then as you kind of go on then all of a sudden your daughter is gonna Start taking on and and now my daughter's 15 almost about to turn 16. We started this when she was 2, She will take on one dinner a week and make the whole meal So now she's building all these skills and then it's like we're we're kind of going into this other chapter of like It, the amount of joy that's created by centering things around food is just incredible.
Chrissie: And just also the way that this positions us in a way to regard and relate to our food producers, whether they are artisanal pasta makers in the Northwest or bakeries or, um, you know, farmers, ranchers. it's very special and unique that we get to do that. And what a beautiful thing to see on a, taking up a whole, you know, meal per week and building that confidence. Like so exciting.
Joy: Yeah. Yeah. And, and she's like the other thing. And I thought, holy crap, we did it. Dustin, we did it. You know, like she's an athlete and a really good student. And before a game, she was like, mom, if I put a nut and some almond butter inside of a date and cover it with a little bit of dark chocolate and I can put, you know, peanut crumbles on top. That is like the perfect pregame fuel mom, because it gives me, you know, I was just like, it was like, yes, yes. She's listening to me. Like she's actually thinking, and she just like went in and just like created something in the kitchen. So, but again, like it's the years of repetition.
I think the other thing that's different than any other meal kit is, we're all kind of growing together too. Like A lot of our customers started, are still with us from 14 years ago. And it's because they're evolving with, they're, we're growing with them and maybe they're interested in Mediterranean diet and they never were before and maybe they're interested, we just want some juice cleanse, maybe that's something they never would have done before. You know, maybe their kids are starting to cook, you know, like there's lots of opportunities besides just the, the, what is for dinner. But the key is, is, can you go on and shop knowing that we've done the mom stamp of approval? You know, like, there's no junk ingredients, there's no preservatives, no colors, no additives, no hormones, no, you know, pesticides, and we know the people who are producing the food, you know, we know the pasta maker, and the bread maker, and the rancher, and the fisherman, like, we know these people.
Chrissie: And you provide employment, flexible part time employment for the people who are delivering. The boxes, um, I mean, as a feminist entrepreneur, like that is one of those things when, when female owned businesses, when female entrepreneurs do well, their communities do well too.
Joy: Yeah, I agree. And our drivers, like the, what we're doing is special to the point where I've had the same drivers for years. I've had the same drivers. And so they're the face. They're really the face of my company and not everyone's home, but you've probably had the same driver for a very long time.
Chrissie: Oh yeah. Every once in a while when we see each other, she's like excited to see me. Like we've hugged.
Joy: Yeah. Do you have Fran?
Chrissie: I think so. I don't, I don't. I can't say for sure, but probably. Yeah. It's probably Fran. And Joy, there are like a bazillion reasons why this wonderful entity could have never existed. So I really just honor your fortitude and commitment to this vision, this creative impulse that you had in response to seeing the suffering of your, you know, your acquaintances with cancer and wanting to just make the world a safer, better place for your daughter.
Joy: Yeah. And at the same time that we were doing all that, my husband was starting a farm. And so not only did I have this, the mom's side of it, where it was like, how do I, how am I going to just keep myself together here and feed my kid? But I was also, my husband was starting a farm and it was like going to farmer's markets was insanity because if the weather wasn't perfect in the northwest, you know, then no one would show up or just a few people on. So then you just have to know everything you harvest. Goes to, you know, the food bank, you know, and it's just like, it's so hard for farmers. They already have to deal with so many issues on land and then weather. And then you have, then you have to be a bookkeeper and you have to be a distributor. So we really found this magic point where we could really begin to change that food system and shift to um, not something that's filled with garbage, which is what our grocery stores are mostly filled with now. Um, by making it easy for the producers and making it easy for the person at home that's cooking it.
I wanted to be the CSA person who could, because you can, you can go join a CSA. Now you can join CSAs and maybe they add in bread or pasta. But that didn't work for me. I needed someone to give me like a plan. Like tell me what to do with it and give me the spice blends and give me the sauces. Like, so that I didn't have to go run around and do more stops. And so, you know, when we started, there weren't meal kit companies. Like we, there literally weren't, there was no HelloFresh. And there, I don't want to think that they copied us. We just had the same idea. You know, they had the same idea a year later, but. Um, it just makes sense to me that we could change things, um, just by making it easier for moms. Moms have this incredible buying power, this incredible power in our communities, um, and in our health. Like, and this is just a little side, but the whole bullshit around getting the color out of Kellogg's. Fuck Kellogg's. Like, just don't buy it. Just don't buy it. They will stop producing garbage if, if women, the moms, stop buying it. Like, I am, like, and so I'm always trying to think of, like, how can I make this easier for the mom? Like, how can I make her health thrive? How can I make her kids health thrive? Yes. Because, you know, We have a power that is so great. If we, most moms are out there grocery shopping and meal planning and doing a lot of hustling and I just want to make it easier because really like if we could flip the script and I think this is so much about like what you're talking about on your podcast and like that deep meaning of the podcast is, there is actually an incredible amount of joy that you can have if you change the narrative around what I'm doing in the kitchen. Am I, is it another thing that I have to do? Or is it something that I actually Get to do that nourishes me that nourishes my daughter, my husband and to do it like, and I had a customer tell me this really early on when I was hanging on by a thread with a four year old starting a business, you know, it was, shit show of a time when I was in my late thirties, trying to, trying to accomplish all of that. And she said, Joy, dinnertime is your time. You get 30, turn on your favorite music, pour a glass of your favorite drink and just enjoy like dance around the kitchen. Like, and then when you sit down, like, watch your family enjoy something, and I was like, well, it doesn't, it's not always that picture perfect, you know, like, sometimes we're, but she was like, but it can be, and so it changed the way I went from thinking this is a chore to being like, this is actually me. And like, I'm going to choose that this is something I enjoy because I didn't enjoy it at first.
Chrissie: You know, it's a perfect segue to how this relates to, um, generalized burnout. A lot of our listeners are in healthcare. A lot of our listeners are physicians, not all of course, but, but many are and burnout is not special for doctors, but it is kind of, uh, especially intense in healthcare these days. Um, and burnout is generalizable. Like once we are burned out in one domain of our life, whether it is, you know, burning out as a parent and householder or burning out at work, they, they really impact one another because of the implicit emotional exhaustion and cynicism and feeling of like low self efficacy and what your work does in my world is, is You know, it decreases my exhaustion because it's less energy I've got to spin and it really boosts my self efficacy in this one domain, right? It makes us sit down at the table and it causes better nourishment in my family, which is one of those things that I feel really good about. You know, and I, and I think that's so true too. I actually just like glean joy from the chopping and prepping that I get to do. Cause it's enough that I get to do that I feel I truly made this meal. I just was given the ingredients. It's not like I'm just warming it up.
Joy: Yeah. burnout is very real and I've, I've been there. I mean, I have two companies in two States. I'm caring for my child with my husband, but I'm also caring for my aging parents. And so burnout is so intense. And I felt like, I mean, for years, I kept thinking like, when is this burnout going to like actually hit rock bottom so I can hang out for a second, you know, like, um, and I, I just. Just in this last year, I've done a deep dive. I'm like, I don't eat junk, you know. I mean, I don't eat perfect. I do love, you know, a piece of cake from a great baker or a croissant or, it's not like I'm perfect. But I've really leaned in this last year and we're actually gonna be doing something. It's gonna be called a hundred day challenge. It's coming in January, but I really leaned into Like What if I just took care of myself, like what if I really just like loved myself and I kept thinking like because I'm 50, yes I worked with a nutritionist because I didn't know what was happening to my body and then I learned I had to eat a lot more protein and fiber. So that's a chapter that you'll, you'll discover in Acme is, is a reset that includes lots of fiber and lots of protein.
So this past year, I really like the past six months I've been diving into micronutrients and like, so it's not just the like, yes, it's food and it's a meal. And it's something that my family will enjoy, but I'm like, Can I get nine different vegetables, like nine, you know, like, and everyone should just should start with a baseline of like, what, how much do they have going on in their bodies now? You know, like, and I was counting like three or four a day and I was like, okay, I may not be eating processed foods or, um, you know, junk ingredients, but I'm not getting enough nutrients in my body. And so that was kind of this new self, you know, like can I come out of burnout with like really focusing on micronutrients and like really focusing on like filling my body with organic produce because it's real and people need hacks, you know Like when you're really exhausted you don't have time to meal plan and make sure that yes you do have cumin in your confit You know, you could have a great idea to make a chili, buy all the ingredients and you're missing one, you know, you ran out of cumin and you forgot to put it on the list. And now that meal might go to waste, you know, unless you're going to make another trip. So there's just a lot, there's a lot going on in our lives. But I think if we realize Um, that if someone's out there to make it easier for you, I just hope more people know that we exist. You know, like that people know that there is a hack other than a HelloFresh that can deliver really good food, um, and to really like pull people into like our community.
So, um, because it is, yes, we're all about food, but, um, we're on this mission together because when someone shows up and they're supporting Spade and Spoon in the Colorado or in the Pacific Northwest, Acme Farms and Kitchen, Acme Box, um, there are dozens of small producers that you're also supporting. So it feels good when you have, you know, you've just brought up Thanksgiving, you know, it's like have a new breath in this, you know, and, um, Pure country ground pork. And, you know, it was the Uli's pork this time. And, you know, it's like local leeks and local, you know, it's like, they're real people attached to these, these ingredients.
Chrissie: I'm making your tantaman, uh, ground pork ramen for dinner tonight. Girl.
Joy: Okay.
Chrissie: No more leftovers. Um, exciting things to me. Um, nourishing ourselves first, nourishing our, you know, 50 ish selves first. Uh, as you said, you know, like the, the data, the information is about protein, y'all it's about protein and fiber, um, and it doesn't take the place of all the different vegetables. We know the people that have the greatest number of different plants in their diet every day do better. This is something I learned from my colleague and dear friend, Miriam Murkowski, who is a nutrition PhD at Stanford. And, um, and I think that her number, she told me was 30, 30 or 35, but you get to count like the oregano in your spice is one, but you look at that is a measure that you could do. And this is not about diet culture. I want to say that so loud and proud, like this is not about restriction or leaving things behind or cutting things out forever and ever, unless that is what your body really needs to do in order to thrive. It's about pleasing our body. It's about nourishing our body so that we actually can be our best self.
And you know, when we spoke about having this podcast episode, you know, you and I kind of like geeked out about a couple of things. One, our, um, our menopause activism, uh, is one of them. We'll get to talk about that a little bit. We are definitely plotting about some good things. And also, just like nourishing ourselves with a green drink or juice, the, the jam packed nutrients in there. So people sometimes wonder how, uh, how it is that I managed to maintain such a high energy level. I'm telling you guys, it is my thorn, like daily greens plus, and my thorn collagen plus, which makes my daily greens yummy. The two of those things together is, that's like my micro, uh, hack for burnout. It is how I actually address the mitochondrial manifestation of burnout. And it makes me have energy to get through the day and have ideas and engage with people and be, you know, in, in the version of myself that I want to be. Yeah. And it's all about how I feed my body micronutrients.
Joy: I know. I know it's, it really is real. Like the, and I have the exact same collagen. Um, I don't, you know, not, it's not an AG one or something, but it's. It's absolutely the building block, but I think if we could normalize some of these conversations, um, there's only so much more burnout we could take. And so, I think reframing some of our to do lists to bring us more joy. So I listen to audiobooks while I do chores around the house, and it has made that drastically more enjoyable. You know, I listen to music when I'm cooking in the kitchen, and I move my body, you know, like I'm, I'm, I'm moving my body as much as I possibly can. But I, I think, what I hear from both of us is, both of us have been burned out. Like really deeply burned out.
Chrissie: Yes
Joy: and Both of us are now in our 50s. So we're wise And I hope I have allowed to say that word on here. but if you could go back to your 42 year old self, 44 year old self, I want to show up for that person. I want to show up for that person because I had to hold on for dear life. For like 44 to 49 and a half , hang on for dear life thinking, you know, gosh, I'm burned out. Ugh. You know? And like, and like, and not just saying the burnout, like, Ugh, it's so hard to get out of bed. It's so hard to, to move my body. It's so hard. You get to a point and it's like, what are those? So what is that thing that you would tell someone as your first baby step out of that darkness, like, if you could go back to your 42 or 44 year old self, what would you, what would be something you would tell them?
Chrissie: You know, the first thing that comes to mind is developing awareness of where you actually are. So checking in with how things really are, because we get so caught up in the doing and the reacting to our circumstance that we, we often don't check in with ourselves for years at a time. So really deeply checking in to say, Hey, how are you? What are you needing? Um, when I did that truly, and for me, it took the form of meditation, but it could be in journaling. It could be in you know, a flotation tank, it could be in a yoga class, like it could be whatever it is on a run. Um, but when you have that time out of time to really deeply check in with yourself and see how you're doing, you may have some ideas. You may have enough awareness to kind of climb out of that defeated state. And be like, actually, I have a choice here. I'm going to make a small change. One small change. Get 1 percent better.
Joy: Yeah. that's good. Yeah. I'm on the meditation train. I've read all the books. I listen, you know, like I, I have time. I think one turning point for me where I was. Um, I, I'm, I think that we share this in common as well as I don't buy into diet cult, like I don't buy into fat diets and, and, um, but I also, for the first time in my life, in my mid 40s, put on 35, 40 pounds and I, Uh, I didn't know what the heck was going on, you know, like, and it felt I felt out of my body, and I was like working out harder and I was doing things and the doctor kept telling me like, Oh, well, here's an antidepressant and here's, um, you know, here, you know, just, just to reduce your calories and, you know, like, I ended up with a nutritionist who just taught me number one was to eat protein, you know, like fill your, get your protein, figure it out, how you're going to get it, because I didn't eat a lot of meat. So it was going to be a game to figure out how I was going to get that. And then, then as soon as I could hit that number that the nutritionist had me hitting, then they said, okay, now you're good at that. Now go find 25, 30 grams of fiber every day. And it was like this change in my mindset of holy crap, like the fuel I was putting into my body in my thirties is what I needed. But the fuel that I need to put into my body in my forties is different. I need like the premium. I need the don't put anything in my body under 92 on the gasoline. Don't put that in me.
So, um, I, I wish I would have learned that a little bit sooner. just like protein and fiber and like learning about it, like in, in gamifying, like, okay, how are we going to get, you know, and I do make it easier for people to do some of those things, but, um, I think that is one. And then I think the micronutri like, just thinking about, like, putting colorful, beautiful things into my body took me from, like, on the ground to, like, way more energy, way less brain frog. Um, and I thought I was eating healthy before, you know, hitting those protein and fiber goals. Um, but then when I opened up to like eating way more produce, I just, it just like was like a better type of fuel in my body.
So those would probably be the, and they're around food, but I did move. I, I walk outdoors whenever I can. And I, you know, I do my green juice with collagen. I'm addicted to celery juice. You know, there's lots of things like that, you know, checking in with your physician about hormones, you know, like, um, they just want to give you an antidepressant and I'd go find another doctor. Um, but yeah, so things like that. But I feel like those are ways that you can experience way more joy in your life. If you could capture something a little before you go off the rails,
Chrissie: it's such a virtuous cycle, you know, it's the opposite of a vicious cycle because when you eat those ways, um, those highly nourishing foods. Especially if it's not in a way that costs you a lot of energy, then you have more energy to think more clearly and to repeat the actions that support this cycle going on, moving forward.
Joy: Yeah. So I think those are, those are things that excite me to them this next chapter for me, it being 50 and I just turned 50 in October and like the buildup to it, and then all of a sudden it was like, I turned 50 and I thought like game on, like, this is going to be my best. And then right after that, it was like, okay, how am I going to help other women, how am I going to help other women thrive? And maybe shorten that four or five years of perimenopause hell. Shorten it a little bit, you know, or support it differently or, um, And that's when I was out on my walk this weekend and I was like, Wait a second, I think my why has always thought about my daughter. But I think it's, it's women. You know, it's moms. I'm trying to help moms, like, and, and, and not even necessarily moms, like, busy women who are, have really full plates, and who maybe, maybe they don't have kids, but they're caring for their, siblings or their parents are like, there's, there's complexities and yeah, we're all busy.
Chrissie: Yes. And the men who are holding their space in the kitchen and for the families also.
Joy: And, and there are a lot of them. And I think that's one thing that's been exciting for my husband and I, we've been together for 29 years. Um, And just in like the last few years, he just started cooking. He just, and I'm just like, this is amazing. He just pulls out an acme recipe or a spade and spoon recipe and starts cooking. So, if you don't have a spouse or partner who is going to help in the kitchen, It may change. Don't, don't underestimate them. If they love the food and you are too busy one night to make it, they may just start making it.
Chrissie: Yes, in our family, I am the, the recognized chef. I'm the head chef and Sue is the sous chef. We like to The sous chef. to tease. Um, but When, when prompted, she's happy to follow an ACME recipe and it is such a delight to come in from my backyard office and find that somebody has made this beautiful meal. It's so, so sweet to be cooked for as much as I do love cooking. And I love how all of this relates to really switching one of those variables that we thought were constants, right? So if you thought, cooking and planning food is hard. I don't cook. These things are things we think are constants, right? But with Acme and other hacks like this or a spade and spoon, we can actually see that completely shift. It's not hard. It is actually delightful and it can be made easy. Yeah. When the things come together and have it align and benefit many, many people. It's such a, such a good and exciting thing. And Joy, you and I are gearing up for an event in Denver on January 8th. Do you want to share a little bit about that?
Joy: Yeah. Um, so this kind of piggybacks on this conversation we're having now is like, how do we help women thrive right now, find more joy? And part of my past year, journey or digging out a burnout was, um, finding the right care, and I actually started hormone replacement therapy, um, really all I was offered up in the past decade when I felt awful and what I mean by feeling awful was, I sleep terrible, my joints hurt all the time, gaining weight, you know, like, um, brain fog, tired all the time in the afternoons and the answer wasn't anti-anxiety. Med med or reduce your calories to 1200 calories and here's a antidepressant. And that was literally what was offered to me.
And so the, the burnout continued. And then, this past May, I just, you know, Instagram has my number. And so they, they served up something where someone was talking about hormone replacement therapy. And I just thought, I'm going, I'm going to use this online service. I'm going to talk to their doctor. Um, I started a really low dose of estrogen and progesterone. What do you know? My shoulder stops hurting and it's been hurting forever, like a year. Like, I couldn't even lift my arm up. It hurt so bad. Um, brain fog was gone within a few days. Sleep improved within a month. You know, like I ended up having so much, you know, so then all of a sudden it made me feel energized to fuel my body. And so, and I'm, I'm, I'm almost 50. And so I'm like, why are none of my friends talking about this? And so I, and I kind of just like got it. And it was like my husband jokes about me and all my systems, because when you don't feel great, when you feel burned out, um, if you are on social media, you will get suckered into trying systems, um, to feel better. You know, like I've tried every, I've tried EG one and tried. I've tried so many different things. Like it's ridiculous to really even count castor oil packs and this and this. And, and I do love a lot of them. Uh, and I still use some things, but like I spent thousands and thousands of dollars trying to find myself through this four or five years of burnout.
And it like, just was this light switch that went on when I, like, So quickly when I just had a little bit of hormones. So I talked to my girlfriends. These are girlfriends I've had since the third grade. So we go way back and my sister in law and I kind of got like, I felt awful, like, well, that's going to give you cancer. And I thought, you know, when I saw this on Instagram, I'm not, I'm not a dumb dumb. I went in and I read estrogen matters. I've read so many books. I was thinking like, is this, would this be a smart move? I've read about menopause, I've read about fasting like a girl, I've read all these different things. And I thought, no, I think the, I think that study was wrong and I, I'm going to stick by my decision to, to go on a little bit of estrogen. And, um, so this movie came, it just got released in October, it's called The M Factor, and several doctor, women, um, and physicians are talking, they just wanted us to start talking about this. It's not like, I do not take a lot of pills, I'm not a big pharmaceutical fan, but I think women need some support. And I'm not a doctor, but I love that these women created this film. And so, yeah, I thought I would like more people to not spend five years and thousands and thousands of dollars on systems, when they might need just a little bit of something that could help them get out of a hole and have enough energy to do a walk that afternoon and dinner. And then maybe the next day they feel a little bit clearer and they pick up a phone and call a friend and talk to a friend that brings them so much happiness. And now all of a sudden, and then maybe they prep their lunch and because they're not ass dragging in the evening because of their day. Yeah. So I, The, so the movie means a lot to me. Menopause and women's health means a lot to me.
Chrissie: The beginning of the me, the Menopause Manifesto, she describes menopause as, you know, this, like, it's, well, of course it's, it's much like a second puberty, right? One was going up the, the mountain and one's coming down the mountain . Um. of ovarian, you know, function and ovulation. And also it's, uh, it's not in a vacuum. Like it's in a very patriarchal, um, environment, you know, especially these, these last, you know,
Joy: Yeah,
Chrissie: hundreds of years, um, where women's health wasn't getting thought of actually outside of the bias of the paternalistic and patriarchal frame. So she's like, so you're headed off into basically a second puberty, but there's no rites or rituals. Nobody talks about it. There's no whisper network. Um, it's expected to suck. Um, it's expected to be kind of like a pre death and good luck. And also, we don't want to hear about it. And also, if you complain loudly about it, you're just going to be dismissed as, you know, having chronic fatigue or something.
Joy: Yeah. Yeah. And I, that, that's it in a nutshell. And I think, um, my goal in us getting to talk or like gather women and to talk about it is, we've been through burnout. We've survived our forties. I think forties are so fantastic on so many levels for business and for like, um, like developing other sides of yourself, but there's also this like so many other challenges too. And so, um, yeah, I just felt like if we could We can host the event and then we talk about how like how important it is that we find happiness You know like that we find Joy in our life, and we make sure that if there is something Hormonally preventing us From experiencing real joy, then let's do something about it. You know, like, um, because I can tell you that once I did start, um, a little bit of estrogen, I had so much more energy to, to make healthy choices. I had so much more energy to take a walk. I had so much more. clarity to parent and to not lose my shit. Um, and I just wonder what would it, what it would have been like if I would have started at three years ago, you know? And so it's like, okay, I'm going to grieve that for a hot second and then move on. And then
Chrissie: make it better for the people coming through it now. I mean, as we talked about on the phone before Joy, my, my symptom of menopause, my primary symptom was also shoulder pain. And it turns out that's not at all, um, unlikely. It's not uncommon. Uh, I don't know the percentages, but it's enough that there's a whole thing called the 50 year old shoulder and to have it absolutely resolve after starting, uh, hormone replacement therapy or menopausal hormone therapy. Um, it's not, It's not surprising to the people who treat menopause and, uh, and know those things. So perhaps that reaches somebody's ears out there today that needs to know they're not crazy for having shoulder pain that's not injury related. Um, and if they're in that window of, you know, somewhere between 45 and 55, that might be what you need more than shoulder injections. It's not, this is not medical advice. Um, I do have your situation, please talk to your doctor. Um, and also information is power. So thank you. May people be empowered, emboldened, and fortified with regard to their nutrition and to their self determination, uh, as they enter the perimenopausal, monomenopausal state. And I can't wait to, um, go to that screening and speak with you on the panel and see how it goes. It's going to be fun.
Joy: It will be fun. And I think any time that you can, we can gather a group of women who, for the most part, are about to go through something. And, potentially help a handful of people that's would be incredible, you know, like that's and, um, again, like, I, I think if someone's moving towards lightness and moving towards happiness then it takes a lot of different things. And I think that's what you learn. And I saw this. I saw this TikTok or I don't know Instagram reel and this woman was talking about her apple cake or something and she's made it. Have you, did you see that one? She was like, you know, she was like, I'm making it for the 30th time for Thanksgiving and she's like, but I'm bringing in all of those versions of me, you know, and I, she was like, I was thinking about like, Oh, and I made it when I was in college. And then I made it when I was, you know, newly married. And then I married, I made it when I had a newborn, my first newborn. And then I made it, you know, like, and then I made it menopause, you know, like, and she's like, and now I'm like, you know, and she was like, then I hit 50 and I'm just like bringing all of these versions of me in. And I think that is what happiness is, is when you like will bring in all of those versions of yourself. Because your burnout sometimes, or just, just going through a chapter that just feels dark and dull and not life giving, there is an opportunity right on the other side of that, which is, you have a podcast and you're doing, you have a different chapter. So it's also, it's okay to go, it's okay to be hanging on by a thread right now, because it also could mean You're, you're just about ready to flip the switch on that next chapter.
Chrissie: I think that's a beautiful place to close out. It's also tying back full circle with how our why changes and our answer to our why changes as we develop and love the image of bringing all the versions of us together into whatever it is that we have to offer now. All of this is for the purpose of reducing suffering. So I hope that somebody finds more joy, less suffering as a result of listening to this conversation today. Joy, it's been such a pleasure to have you as I knew it would be. Thank you for, for having this conversation with me and I cannot wait to see you in person for our January event in Denver. So Joy, will you please share with our listeners a little bit about how to find Acme and Spade and Spoon In their areas of the country and I know that you also have a kind offer for our listeners. Yeah.
Joy: Yeah, so So we we do have two companies. Our Pacific Northwest company is called Acme Farms and Kitchen You can find us at theacmebox. com So just, yeah, A C M E, um, box. com and you'll find subscription boxes. If you just want to set it and forget it, you can find build your own boxes where you can just pick your own meals. We just started new categories where you can like look at what's for breakfast, what's for lunch, what's for dinner. Um, so you can really start filling in, um, your plate and your meals so that you're, you're knowing that what's coming in your house is clean good food. Our, if you're in the Colorado Denver area, um, our company is called Spade and Spoon, and so you can find us at spadespoon. com and yeah, it's, you just, there's no commitments. Um, we believe that, you know, people really, if this is a hack for people and they really need us, we don't need to tie them into some weird, uh, Subscription model that just banks on them for getting a cup to cancel. And, and, um, yeah, that's, that's not good business. So no commitments. You just sign up. You can even just sign up for a newsletter and lurk for a little while and learn about our producers and get to know us a little bit more. Um, we do do local delivery, so you're not going to find a lot of packaging. You can open up the box and literally just see the produce and your food right there. Um,
Chrissie: we're even encouraged to reuse the box because you guys pick up the boxes, which I love because nobody needs another couple of cardboard boxes to break down and put in the recycling right now. So thank you so much for letting me send back those, um, cold packs and boxes every week.
Joy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, we would love for your, listeners to try us out. Um, they get 30 percent off and you can use your. You're podcasting
Chrissie: amazing. What's the code just solving for joy,
Joy: solving for joy. I think that's perfect.
Chrissie: We'll put it in the show notes, everybody, but you heard it here.
Joy: So yes, I think that solving for joy, getting dinner and nourishing your body. Our two hacks, two really great hacks to solve for joy.
Chrissie: I'll drink to that. Cool.
Joy: Thank you for having me on Chrissie
Chrissie: my pleasure. We'll talk soon. Joy. Thank you.
Joy: Thank you.
Chrissie: Thanks for listening, everybody. We will see you next time.
I want to take a quick moment to acknowledge our incredible team. This podcast is produced by the amazing Kelsey Vaughn, post production and more handled by Alyssa Wilkes, and my steadfast friend and director of operations, Denise Crain. Our theme music is by Denys Kyshchuk cover photography by the talented Shelby Brakken and a special appreciation to my loyal champion and number one fan, Suzanne Sanchez. Thanks again for tuning in everyone. May we continue caring for ourselves, caring for others, and may we continue solving for joy. Take care. We'll see you next time.
